nous

A placeholder, until the next strip.

UPDATE: For those requesting a t-shirt, here is a hi-res version of the image so you can print your own.

UPDATE2: A kind reader called Dan has made a better hi-res image for you to use if you prefer:

└ Tags:

Discussion (117)¬

  1. MarkyWarky says:

    Plus one 🙁




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  2. Caroline Webb says:

    I just posted this wonderful cartoon, nous, on FB. The problem is that the image is not displaying in full – the critically important words are not showing up and that is a real shame. The point of the work has been lost! If there is anything you can do to get a single image like this to “fit” Facebook properly, that would be good. Thank you for your fabulous work.




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  3. Desmond O'Toole says:

    Well done!




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  4. Justateensybitstrident says:

    Right there with you – the thing these fools hate most is being laughed at, because then for a moment everyone can see their God-driven rhetoric for what it really is. If they force us to silence ourselves, then they’ve defeated us.

    Aujourd’hui, moi aussi je suis Charlie.




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  5. nemo81 says:

    That’s the way to do it

    Merci




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  6. henry ford says:

    nous sommes Charlie




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  7. eoinkenobi says:

    I reckon we all need to wear the T shirt. Well done Author.




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  8. Ian Jones says:

    T-Shirt please.




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  9. Selm says:

    Don’t forget: The barman must be Charlie Hebdo, also.




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  10. HaggisForBrains says:

    Nous sommes Charlie.




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  11. Baz says:

    Yes – a T-shirt of that panel.




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  12. Author says:

    For those requesting a t-shirt, I’ve added a link to a hi-res image of this comic. There are many internet t-shirt sites where you can get one-offs printed.




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  13. Chris says:

    Je m’appelle Jesus
    Et je m’appelle Mo
    Et ensemble
    Nous sommes Charlie Hebdo




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  14. Bebert says:

    Bien joué!

    And let’s not overlook that in fine Charlie Hebdo had more material about Christian bigotry than about Islam.




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  15. Eylenn says:

    Author, may we reproduce this if we include a link to your website? I suppose that you are aware of the kinship between your drawing and the infamous Charlie drawing that started the whole thing, showing Mo hiding his face and complaining Dur, Dur d’être aimé par des cons (it’s really hard to be loved by assholes).




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  16. Kakapo says:

    Je suis & Moi




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  17. Emma+Peel says:

    Thank you Author. We are indeed.




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  18. Author says:

    Eylenn, be my guest.




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  19. steeve says:

    Thank you




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  20. Macha says:

    Nous sommes tous Charlie.




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  21. IanB says:

    Very appropriate




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  22. machigai says:

    Merci.




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  23. micky says:

    Well done Author.




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  24. Roger says:

    This is perfect




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  25. freethinkinfranklin says:

    religion poisons everything…. is Doonesbury next?




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  26. Free+Speech says:

    Wet blanket on your childish delusions time, boys and girls. “Mohammed” would NOT be holding up the sign. “Mohammed” would have participated in the slaughter and the French police would be hunting him right now. Hate on me if you like, I don’t care, but this sort of clueless, liberal, dhimmi Islamopandering is a huge part of the overall problem. “Mohammed” was a slaughterer, pure and simple. He was not nice. He was not spiritual. He was not a prophet. He was not good. He was a warlord, a rapist, a beheader, a caravan raider, a pedophile, a liar and a thief. For you to present a cartoon to simply go along with the delusion that “If Mohammed were alive he would certainly disapprove of this terror attack” is, frankly, disgusting.




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  27. Thank you Author! Specially when you think that most main media do not dare publish a single cartoon of this Mohammed guy. Today, I bitterly laugh at you, Mohammed!

    Je suis Charlie, aujourd’hui, demain et pour toujours.




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  28. HaggisForBrains says:

    I think you’re missing the point, Free Speech! Author is showing solidarity, through his cartoon characters.




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  29. LongLifeBeer says:

    Kerning.

    “Jesu Is Charlie”. Kerning fixed.




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  30. Farhome says:

    As a professed Christian I have to say that this drawing really resonated with me. I doubt I am the only Christian to frequent this site and my beliefs definitely put me in the minority here but I have never left the pages here without food for thought. While I don’t always agree with the viewpoints expressed I do appreciate the insight. Open minds lead to open hands and hearts. My thanks to the artist for staying true to his viewpoint. It is a view that needs to be seen and heard and appreciated more in this world.




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  31. Of course Mohammed would not be holding up the sign, but Mo is not Mohammed. Mo is a body-double of Mohammed.

    Also, if you think this toon has anything to do with “clueless, liberal, dhimmi Islamopandering” this must be the first time you’ve ever seen it.




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  32. Author says:

    Thanks, Ophelia and HfB. You’re right of course. Mo is not Mohammed, and neither is Jesus Jesus. They are both actors I employ to play their roles (I pay them with beer). It is the actors who are holding the banner.




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  33. Gus says:

    “We’ve taken the view that we don’t want to publish hate speech or spectacles that offend, provoke or intimidate, or anything that desecrates religious symbols or angers people along religious or ethnic lines,” said Santiago Lyon, a vice president of the Associated Press and its director of photography. “We don’t feel that’s useful.”

    Neither the New York Times nor The Washington Post has ever published the Danish or French cartoons, and both indicated Wednesday that they don’t intend to.”

    Not only is this coward, but it deprives the audience of a vital piece of information to judge the developments that followed the publication of those cartoons.




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  34. two cents' worth says:

    And all this time, I thought J&M worked for peanuts 😉 .

    Author, thanks for another great toon.




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  35. JustMe says:

    Moi aussi, je suis Charlie. And thank you for your always-entertaining as well as thought-provoking web site.




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  36. BJ says:

    Author – please advise your actors (and of course yourself) to take care n these dark times. The reasons behind the actions may be laughable but the actions themselves are not. And I presume, two cents, that the peanuts come gratis with the beer?




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  37. Don says:

    As a symbol of remembrance and solidarity a pencil is way better than an instrument of torture. Thank you, Author.

    Free+Speech.
    Do try to keep up.




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  38. two cents' worth says:

    BJ, to belabor the joke, you know and I know that the peanuts come gratis with the beer, but, until the Author explained that J&M are paid with beer, I assumed that they bought their beer and that they thought that their compensation was peanuts. In addition to misunderstanding the situation, I suppose I underestimated their intelligence 😉 .

    Speaking of beer, isn’t this another proof that Mo is an actor? If he were really Mohammad, he wouldn’t be willing to work for beer. (Or would he? Did Mohammad believe that no one should drink alcoholic beverages, or would he have been willing to sell the beer to infidels for ready cash?)




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  39. ccdarling says:

    Thank you. Have shared to FB.




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  40. Bob says:

    Thank you, and I have also shared on FB.
    Where exactly is the link to the hi-def comic for printing? Thanks in advance




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  41. Robert,+not+Bob says:

    Two cents, Mohammad wasn’t above making different rules for himself and everyone else-number of permissible wives, for instance. Doesn’t mean he would drink beer; maybe he just didn’t like it and that’s why he forbade it.




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  42. cestma says:

    Bravo!

    Deliciously meta! 😉




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  43. Author says:

    Bob, it’s under the comic and here.




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  44. Seshat says:

    Thank you so much Author for your cartoons. I’ve followed you for a few years but never posted before. The attack yesterday was just devastating and has been the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. It’s past time to speak out against these atrocities, to stand up and be counted.




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  45. JohnM says:

    Was I the only one with an irony meter switched on when reading Free+Speech’s mini-rant? Or did the quality of his/her hyperbole cause you to overlook this crafty ‘Poe’?




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  46. Vanity Unfair says:

    I just assumed they were drinking dandelion and burdock.
    There’s no outright ban in the Quran (evidence wanted). Drunkenness is forbidden, especially at prayer. But as that’s five times daily, there wouldn’t be much time anyway. Wine is promised to the faithful as a reward in the afterlife on several occasions. However, my favourite verse on the subject is:
    Surat An-Na?l 16:67 (Muhsin Khan)
    And from the fruits of date-palms and grapes, you derive strong drink (this was before the order of the prohibition of the alcoholic drinks) and a goodly provision. Verily, therein is indeed a sign for people who have wisdom.
    which shows the unalterable word of Allah to good effect.




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  47. two cents' worth says:

    Vanity Unfair, I suppose that a Muslim cleric would say that the “sign for people who have wisdom” is that one must be especially on guard against alcoholic beverages because it’s so easy to make them in large quantities. Sort of a variation on “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” :-/




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  48. two cents' worth says:

    P.S. The cleric might also say that wine is safe to drink only in the afterlife, where drinking it has all of the positive consequences, and none of the negative ones, that it has here on Earth.




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  49. blackflag1961 says:

    Je suis charlie, aussi.
    Stay safe, author.




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  50. Emma+Peel says:

    I hadn’t heard of Charlie Hebdo before this tragedy. Now the name is on everyone’s lips and will not soon be off them. A nice victory.




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  51. Thanks, Author. You nailed it again.




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  52. connie says:

    Whadda we want? More comics.
    When do we want’em? Now.
    Keep it up Author.




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  53. Pierrick says:

    Merci.




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  54. jop says:

    I think the barmaid is Charlie Hebdo as well.




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  55. Mary2 says:

    Author, where is the ‘like’ button? Consider it pressed.

    What a small and tiny god you worship if he needs you to murder people to prevent him from getting hurt feelings! We wouldn’t allow hurt feelings as an excuse from even the most fragile and sensitive of children and yet these people think their almighty, creator of the universe is more needy than even the most vulnerable person.

    Free Speech, the fact that we don’t hate all Muslims with the same irrational vehemence with which a small minority of them seem to hate everyone else is “a huge part of the overall problem”? What would you suggest as the solution? Shooting murder of every random Muslim we meet?

    Farhome, well said. Open minds and the ability to discuss and challenge beliefs is an integral ingredient of growth and improvement in humans as individuals and humanity in general.




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  56. Dan says:

    There were some ‘anomalies’ in the high resolution image. Particularly grey around Jesus’s neck and Mo’s shoulder.

    I’ve had to tidy it up somewhat and had it printed on a hoodie.

    I’m making a donation to the site as way of thanks to author.




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  57. FreeFox says:

    Hey folks. I’ve been away from the Cock and Bull for too long. It’s been a crazy year, and I’ve seen (and done) too much horrible things. For a while I didn’t feel at home here anymore. It’s hard to explain, but if you actually see the truly messy end of the stuff we joke here about, well, it becomes harder to laugh about it. Which is a shame, because as Stubb says in Moby Dick, laughter is the only answer to all the madness in the world. I dunno, I think the massacre at Charlie Hebdo makes me feel, okay, it kinda makes me feel the killers dragged those of you in the “safe” west down to my level, and I am not the one dragging dirt in anymore if I join you for a pint. Probably silly, but there it is.




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  58. FreeFox says:

    Our visitor “FreeSpeech” and Mary2’s response (Hello Mary, good to see you again, missed you) had me thinking. Cos it’s something I’ve been trying to get my head around for a long time. You see, almost everyone around me for the past, oh, 4 years or so, has been Muslim. Some more so than others. And a lot of them have become close friends. Some have been lovers. Others I entrust my son to. On the other hand, I’ve seen not only what IS and their like-minded “brothers” do with my own eyes, but I’ve had close friends, like a queer Iranian who had sought refuge in Turkey, driven to suicide by the level of bigotry and homophobia here. We don’t get stoned in Anatolia, or have our arseholes glued shut with superglue and are then fed laxatives until we die in agony like it is happening in Iraq at the moment, but being forced to beg for truly shitty labour, getting paid less than anyone else, and having to pay kickbacks for not being “outed”, being thrown from apartments for no reason, being refused service… I’ve been beaten up in Germany in school for being a faggot, but there is a huge field between the level of religious hostility I have ever seen in the West and the outright shooting and beheading of rampant theocratic violence as is happening south of my border.

    When “FreeSpeech” went on his rant about the evil of Muhammad, I realised, I don’t give a shit about the past. Leaving aside that we have next to no trustworthy sources on the historical Muhammad, of course he was a murderous cunt. But so what? If Jesus ever existed and was anything like described he was to quote C.S. Lewis “a madman or something worse”, Martin Luther was a rabid anti-Semite and a lickspittle turncoat selling out the peasants during the revolt, Jefferson owned slaves, the French Revolution is built on a massive blood bath, and even Gandhi was a reactionary, misogynistic, self-righteous Nazi-appeaser. So yeah, people in the past were pretty much all cunts. What we revere now aren’t the real people, but bits and pieces of ideas we associate with them.

    So what about all those around me who truly believe that “their” Islam is a religion of peace and love? If I forget about the past and just look at my friends, neighbours, lovers, clients, business partners, etc?

    They are all nuts. Insane. They are ill. That is what I have come to think after a few years living in religious societies. Some are infected more than others, some have more immunity against the worst symptoms (hatred and violence, but also self-loathing and unhealthy self-denial), but organised religion is a disease. People get infected mostly in their childhood, and sometimes as adults. And you know what, in a way it gives me hope, because all those good people around me, they aren’t good because of their faith, but in spite of it. In spite of being infected with an absolutely morally debilitating disease, most of them manage to fight it enough to remain mostly friendly and loving people who I cherish to have in my life. Of course, others get completely hollowed out by this disease until they become murderous zombies. Yeah, make no mistake. In Europe it may mostly be a talking point, because you’ve all been immunized through centuries of Christianity and Enlightenment, but here it’s the outbreak of a zombie plague, nothing less, and Turkey is slowly but surely falling too. (As you can see in Paris and every now and then in the US and currently in Australia, it can still flare up in the West as well, of course. But it’s unlikely to spread.)

    Ah, but here’s the rub. While this is a zombie plague, its outbreak is no accident. Maybe the immediate followers of Muhammad (just like those of Jesus and Moses) were the patients zero, but in the end they’re all victims. What makes me despair sometimes over the, well, yeah, smugness of banter here in the C&B (as much as I cherish you all, too), is this: It is easy (although sometimes dangerous, as we just saw) to make fun of religion, because religion is so blatantly insane. That doesn’t make it less funny, but maybe a little pointless? Because the man behind the curtain ISN’T some insane preacher or prophet or even local dictator. The men behind the curtain are the suits working for big oil, big banks, big weapon manufacturers, even for big food companies like Monsanto or Nestlé. Every crazy religious theocracy between the Bosporus and the Himalayas has been set up by and serving the interests of those men. And now that the very same people are busy bleeding you guys, all of you middle class people in the West, just as dry and stealing all your famous civil liberties, with TAFTA, TTIP, TPP, etc., the fear of Islam is not only used to distract you, it is actively fanned by sneaking heavy weapons to Islamists to keep the war going.

    Yeah, religion is the disease, but there are guys in white lab coats actively keeping the infection alive, to serve their own purposes…

    (tl;dr: Hi everybody, I missed you all, life sucks, religion is a horrible disease, but unfortunately it’s not the only thing that’s bad)




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  59. FreeFox says:

    (Thanks a lot Author, already printed the Hi-Rez version, going to have it made into a T this afternoon and will wear a lot from tonight on. 😀 That’s still possible without too much risk here…)




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  60. JoJo says:

    ‘Placeholder’ is too modest a description from one of the few people qualified to say ‘Je suis Charlie.’
    This article highlights the hypocrisy and cowardice shown by the UK media in response to the attack.
    http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/07/je-suis-charlie-no-youre-not-or-else-you




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  61. HaggisForBrains says:

    Hi FreeFox, it’s good to see you back. Your comment was very interesting to me, and your reportage from Turkey gives us a useful insight into they way things are in that part of the Middle East. Thank you, and take care 🙂




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  62. Dan says:

    Oh.My. God (sic).
    Author has kindly posted my tinkerings with their work.

    In a week when people are murdered for producing cartoons of the prophet, Author renders me this honour.

    I could not be more proud. *Beams*




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  63. opposablethumbs says:

    Thank you Author. My respects and my most heartfelt good wishes.
    J’suis Charlie, j’suis Ahmed qui est mort en cherchant de défendre Charlie :-(((((




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  64. eidzei says:

    Second post for me, I guess. Aren’t these the times – even for us/them that may not already have – to show how we feel about the world? I’m concerned, so much so.




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  65. Rob says:

    This is what newspapers should be publishing.




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  66. two cents' worth says:

    FreeFox, it’s good to see you here again. Your comments are powerful. Thanks for the reality check. I hope the Cock & Bull will serve you as a place behind the lines, as it were, where you can get a bit of respite from the insanity and horror.




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  67. two cents' worth says:

    For some more cartoons in support of Charlie Hebdo, see http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/heartbreaking-cartoons-from-artists-in-response-to-the-ch#.pqD1ZMDemN

    Also, Pat Oliphant (who, I think, hadn’t published any cartoons since Aug. 21, 2014), published this: http://www.gocomics.com/patoliphant/2015/01/08




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  68. Robert+Andrews says:

    I’m not sure i get the joke. Did they kill the bartender and burn down the bar? And are they now pretending to be moderate?

    The bartender has been in just about every other strip.

    “If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.” from the web




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  69. ‘Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry, becomes a real threat to our freedoms.’ Salman Rushdie – and he should know!




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  70. Mary2 says:

    Free Fox, Good to see you old buddy! Your comments are as thought-provoking as ever.

    I think you are right: most of us at the C & B do live in a different world. We certainly do often slip into smugness (you have pulled me up for it quite frequently). If I can speak for myself rather than the whole pub, we live in a world far removed from the kind of violence seen recently in France and Sydney and certainly in Syria or Nigeria. These things are completely foreign to me and beyond my ken. The smug, superior, ‘in group’ ridicule we conduct here is not dirrected at the people involved in this kind of reality. You are totally right that what we do here must seem remote and meaningless to someone dealing with the real frontline issues of the battle of ideas between liberal Muslims and hardline theocrat fundamentalist Islam with a whole country (like Turkey) as the prize. We are not really in that fight and I don’t see how we can contribute to it without following Free Speech’s implication of joing anti-immigration, ultra-nationalist rallies – and I’m pretty damn sure doing that would contribute nothing useful to the cause and may even push more disengaged young people to the fundamentalist fringe.

    What we do here (and it may seem kind of pointless to those on the frontlines) is knit socks and hold cake drives for the soldiers. We try to keep the home fires burning. We provide comfort for like-minded people that the whole world is not mad and that there is a group of people who believe in a rational world of thought and discussion instead violence and doctrine. We try, in our small way, to influence governments’ reactions to world events. We hope that we may be the light on the hill for those who are still moderates (on both sides) but wavering.

    Now I don’t mean to make us sound all noble and self-sacrificing – I’m sure most of us come here because we like a laugh and good conversation (and a bit of smug superiority) rather for any noble cause. I’m merely trying to agree with you, Free Fox, while stretching an analogy to say that while we may not be directly in the same war we can provide a safe haven while also believing that the battle of ideas is also important and must be fought. I hope I haven’t done too badly. Keep visiting when you need a break among friends.




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  71. My Dear FreeFox. Good to hear your voice again, and to learn that you have at least survived whatever adventures you have fallen into.

    You are spot on in everything you said about us. My life is comfortable. I’m not really engaged in this horrific conflict. Reading the link from JoJo (thanks, Jojo) I don’t feel very good about myself. Darwin Harmless, the blog, is anonymous. I’m not really out there, facing the goon with the AK47. I’m not worthy to wear a Tshirt proclaiming that I’m Charlie Hebdo. I’m not. Nowhere close.

    I briefly considered using this occasion to reveal my secret identity. I suck at anonymity anyway, and anybody could figure it out pretty quickly just from stuff I’ve posted on these threads. But then I think about my life, and the people I love in and around my life. I have no right to bring terrorism into their lives, even if the possibility is fairly remote. And I’m sure I’m not important enough as a social justice warrior and culture commenter to attract any attacks, so it would feel like a stupid, self aggrandizing gesture. Author, who is important enough, should remain anonymous, and so should I, though for different reasons.

    That said, I’m ashamed of the CBC’s decision to not publish any of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons. I’m ashamed at the big media outlets who are backing away and self censoring. Do I have the right to call them cowards? Probably not. But I do wish they had more spine and didn’t excuse themselves by claiming an ideological commitment to being unoffensive. Fuck being inoffensive.

    I truly am sick about this whole situation. Cheers mates.




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  72. HelloDayr says:

    Saudi Arabia starts flogging man 1,000 times for insulting religion on Facebook. So much more civilized than shooting satirists.”

    FreeFox, have you watched “The Sum Of All Fears” recently?

    LongLifeBeer, (why would we need such a thing, kid, beer’s for drinking not for keeping) ““Jesu Is Charlie”. Kerning fixed.”, clever.




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  73. Emma+Peel says:

    Love the Pat Oliphant cartoon – thank you two cents’ worth. The tiniest criticism I have is that 7th century is quite a bit more optimistic than I would have thought.




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  74. no avatar :( Oh wait says:

    Here is the inoffensive way to depict mohammad: Take a piece of standard letter-size paper 8.5 x 11 inches, orient it vertically (like a portrait!) and write “Mohammad” along the bottom in large letters using a felt marker.

    If you like, you can add a what looks like a picture frame around the edge, but that really isn’t necessary.

    Here is a link to a useful video about how Islam insidiously encroaches upon civilization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxdoztoBEuc (8 mins).

    It may give you ideas about what to say to your national government to prevent islamization of your home – when that begins to happen, it it hasn’t already.




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  75. FreeFox says:

    Hey DarwinHarmless, old foe 😉 and thanks for the kind words, Mary2.

    In a November 2006 interview in The New York Times, billionaire investor and one of the 10 wealthiest people in the world Warren Buffett stated that “There’s class warfare all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

    Do you all know that when the Trans-Atlantic Trade Agreement and the Trans-Pacific Partnership are passed, corporations will have the right to sue governments (i.e. all you tax-payers) for their projected losses from national legislation like minimum wages, ecological restrictions, safety laws, GMO control, or changes in energy policy? That the “courts” deciding over such law suits won’t be regular courts of law but tribunals run by corporate lawers, and that they will be without appeal?

    Seriously. YOU will pay THEM for any safety standards you want, or if you don’t want them to ruin your own lands through fracking! That is no hyperbole. That is exactly what is being passed in parliaments around the world right now!

    I really do not wish anyone in Europe this religious plague people are suffering from here. But religious craziness is bred in ignorance, poverty, and fear. The virus is the ideology itself, but the circumstances are making people suceptible for it. And the situation that destroys people’s memetic immune system here is constant destructive interference, from the rise and toppling of the Shah, the funding of Saddam Hussein against Chomeini, the support of the Taliban (then Mujahedin) against the Soviets, the support of the Saudis, the lies about WMD and the Iraq war to the arming of islamists in Libyia against Gaddafi that directly lead to the rise of ISIS, EVERYTHING has been pushed by Western interest – the very same interests that are now destroying the very liberties and freedom and civil societies that most of you live in.

    You don’t have to BE at any forefront here in the middle east. And nothing what Author is saying about religion is wrong. It is just as silly and ridiculous as we all here agree on that it is.

    I wish there was a Christopher Hitchens, Stephen Fry, Sam Harris, or Richard Dawkins speaking out as eloquently and amusingly against that other enemy of democracy. Not unreason, or supersticion, but cold, calculating greed. But all we have is Noam Chomsky, who I love dearly, but who is no Christopher Hitchens…

    Don’t you ever feel that maybe, just maybe, fighting this particular fight maybe actually be playing into the hands of people who are a much greater threat to your liberties?




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  76. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    Welcome home, FreeFox. Good to see that you and your son are still kicking around. How is the little fella?

    Now, I’ll have to take you to task just a little.

    FreeFox says:
    January 9, 2015 at 10:34 am
    Hey folks. I’ve been away from the Cock and Bull for too long. It’s been a crazy year, and I’ve seen (and done) too much horrible things. For a while I didn’t feel at home here anymore. It’s hard to explain, but if you actually see the truly messy end of the stuff we joke here about, well, it becomes harder to laugh about it. Which is a shame, because as Stubb says in Moby Dick, laughter is the only answer to all the madness in the world. I dunno, I think the massacre at Charlie Hebdo makes me feel, okay, it kinda makes me feel the killers dragged those of you in the “safe” west down to my level, and I am not the one dragging dirt in anymore if I join you for a pint. Probably silly, but there it is.

    I had no idea you felt this way but, yes, it is silly. You should know by now that there is always a seat for you here, no matter how much dirt you bring in with you.
    It’s voices such as yours, voices of those who are on the ‘frontline’ of this whole fucked-up situation that we need to hear more regularly, and if you prick our smug complacency (akin to Darwin, I plead guilty as charged) then so much the better. It’s too easy to lose sight of the bigger picture from the safety of our secularised bubbles.
    There is no such thing as a fair-weather home; you bring what you need to bring, and as often as you wish. Nobody here will begrudge you taking the edge off the laughter. That’s not who we are!




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  77. IanB says:

    It would seem that some at least think the restriction on images in isalm is manufactured more than real http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/pictures.html




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  78. ERIC says:

    NOUS français nous avons été touchés par le terrorisme. Aux yeux du monde, nous montrons notre détermination a lutter contre ces gens là. Mais cela n’occulte pas toutes les souffrances de tous nos amis, vous peuple qui avez tous su nous montrer votre soutien. Sachez que nous serons aussi là à vos cotés pour combattre le terrorisme. La France a changé, la France vous remercie, la France continuera à faire vivre ses convictions : LIBERTÉ, FRATERNITÉ et EGALITE

    French US we have been affected by terrorism. To the world, we show our determination to fight against those people. But that does not overshadow all the suffering of all our friends, people that you have all been able to show us your support. Know that we too will be there at your side to fight terrorism. France has changed, France Thank you, France will continue to support her convictions: FREEDOM, EQUALITY and FRATERNITY




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  79. Robert+Andrews says:

    Nous Sommes Charlie Hebdo

    I hope we’re taking this seriously and contacting our local media. They need to keep up the pressure and run those cartoons, for the next couple of days. The pressure must be kept up. I know they were never printed in my local paper.

    It’s easy to forget if the pressure is not kept up over the next few days, at least. Email, or phoneing is even better

    You’ve got to stand for something, or you’ll fall for anything.




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  80. plainsuch says:

    Don’t you ever feel that maybe, just maybe, fighting this particular fight maybe actually be playing into the hands of people who are a much greater threat to your liberties?

    More immediate threat for sure but, ultimately, not greater.




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  81. hotrats says:

    I am Charlie, and so is my wife.




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  82. FreeFox says:

    Welcome on the bus, hotrats. I knew you’d join the team. 😉




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  83. Mord_Sith says:

    And chock one more point on to my paranoiameter care of FreeFox (Not that I don’t appreciate the heads up mind you.)

    The only sobering thought regarding that is quite frankly don’t you think they already gut us for standards, minimum wage, etc. as it stands?

    Or perhaps the fact that (while I wholeheartedly support the woman’s rights movement in all aspects) since the woman’s rights movement, companies and corporations have a far broader pool of workers thus can whittle down wages to the point that it is practically impossible to live on a single income and raise a family.

    I mean right now, it’s lockstep, minimum wage goes up to compensate for inflation, up goes the prices on EVERYTHING, ultimately the median wage holder loses as they do not go up.

    Perhaps using the term “Western Interest” isn’t exactly correct either, I can’t name one person I know who I believe would want to propagate the hideous crimes throughout the middle east, let alone shooting up Charlie Hebdo and increasing the violence into Europe.

    What it sounds like you’re referring to is the 1%, the people who have enough money to own the world for all intents and purposes, but I could be imposing my personal dislike for those maggots who keep putting the thumb screws to little old grandmothers over a 0.99c song for example.




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  84. FreeFox says:

    Nope. That exactly who I mean. But Credite Suisse published their financial report for 2014 a few weeks back. 50% of all people owning over 500 Million dollars are US Americans – by far the largest concentration anywhere in the world. The next one, China, has only c. 4.5% of the super rich, followed by Germany with a little under 4% (but consider how many people live in China compared to the US or Germany) and then a mix of European, Middle Eastern, and South American countries. So for all intents an purposes those whose interests are served both by the “gutting” you speak off and the current fear of Islam ARE the western leaders. Not the Chinese, not Russian oligarchs, not third world dictators, but the suits sitting in the boardrooms in the US and Europe.




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  85. FreeFox says:

    Hey AoS! Long time no see. So glad to talk to you again. I really am sorry for being silent so long. In part it was that I was for long stretches in areas where there was no stable internet service, so I usually caught up on J&M a few weeks after the fact, but was too late to join any ongoing discussions. (Nobody reads the old threads… 😉 )

    But yeah, it is weird to see these jokes about Mo’s self-deception and easily insulted nature, living here. I mean, I am living here by choice, and there is a lot I love about this region and the poeple and the nature (When I am home with my boy and his mom, I live in the shadow of a great mountain, and I love to hike on its slopes. Also, northeast of here, there’s a great plain, with goat herding – and smuggling 😉 – semi-nomads. Sometimes when I need to get away, I get on my bike and drive, and live with them for a couple of days. And I have friends in a city down by the sea, we sometimes hang out at the shore or on a boat, and it’s just bliss…) But the way people here are, well, as I said, sick with their “faith” (that, actually, I think is everything *except* faith… it is so riddled with insecurity that it makes them all unbelievably touchy), and even otherwise reasonable and peaceful friends just get weird around the topic. It’s almost a phobia against reality. “Don’t confuse me with facts and logic!” It would be hilarious… if it wasn’t so serious, and if these people wouldn’t suffer so much from it. That is the part that people here don’t get. This memetic trap, or virus, or whatever it is, it is so armed with guilt and shame and fear, people suffer from it. That hatred we get to see, that violence, that intolerance? That is first and foremost self-hatred… self-loathing for having sexual desires, for craving food, for not being manly or feminine enough, for chafing under prayer restrictions, and from the constant feeling of having a little dictator stuck in their heads who monitors everything, and doesn’t even allow them to admit how much they hate it and how much they suffer from it… they have to keep smiling while they get mindfucked day in and day out, and to convince themselves that they couldn’t be happier, that they need God, that they love Him… so, when you force them to face reality – they freak out. A fascist state has nothing on this system. So, it really gets harder to laugh about the silliness. It is harder to laugh about J&M and their silly antics when you can see friends not only suffer from the persecution, but from the “faith” itself…

    I still believe in God(s), and in prayer (not intercessory prayer, though), ghosts, spirits, even a sweet (and not so sweet) hereafter, after my fashion. But I haven’t ‘suffered’ from my faith since I told God that He can go fuck Himself and take His whole fucked up creation with Him, and I wouldn’t bow, and actually put my life on the line for it. It was intensely liberating.

    One of my favourite quites from Terry Pratchet is from Going Postal:
    “There is always a choice.”
    “You mean I could choose certain death?”
    “A choice nevertheless, or perhaps an alternative. You see I believe in freedom. Not many people do, although they will of course protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based.”

    It reminds me of something V says in the original V For Vendetta (not the crappy American movie):
    “Thank you. But I’d rather die.”
    “Then there is nothing left to threaten with, is there? You are free.”
    And later:
    “Don’t you realise what you did to me? You nearly drove me mad, V!”
    “If that’s what it takes, Evey.”
    “You say you love me, and you don’t, because you just frighten me and torture me for a joke… you say you want to set me free and you put me in a prison…”
    “You were already in a prison. You’ve been in a prison all your life.”
    “Shut up! I don’t want to hear it! I wasn’t in prison! I was happy! I was hu-happy here, until you threw me out…”
    “Happiness is a prison, Evey. Happiness is the most insidious prison of all.”

    You know all those people who say, faith gives them peace, or trust that things will work out, or that believing that their dead friends are in heaven gives them hope and lets them cope with it?

    It’s a prison. It’s an insidious prison, made up of fear and happiness in a perverted, sick mix that makes people hate themselves, and blame themselves, until they reach a point they need to attack someone else, anyone, a scapegoat, just to relieve the pent up pressure of that hatred.

    So… yeah… as you can see… I am not sure how to fit in here. I am really happy to see you all again, but… it’s weird.




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  86. “old foe”? Hardly, Freefox. I disagree with you on only one point, your insistence that there are gods. Other than that, I find great wisdom in everything you say. A person is free only to the extent that they are willing to accept the consequences of their actions. My problem is, consequences can so often be unintended and unforeseen.

    I’m really enjoying having you back with us at the C&B. You’re like our emissary to the land of idiots, bringing back intelligence and analysis. I don’t know how you can stand to live among them, but I appreciate that you do. I have enough trouble living among our own idiots, of which we seem to have plenty as the attacks on Muslims in France will attest.

    The terrorists certainly seem to be winning. America is now calling for taking away the passport of anybody who visits Muslim countries, and putting them on the no fly list. Can’t trust people to just go and see for themselves, apparently.

    Personally, I’d like us to see terrorism as just the cost of doing business, like accidents are the cost of driving cars. (Which soon will be a thing of the past as the driverless car takes over the roads. We’ll be forbidden from driving because we’re not safe enough.) We all know that the tight security at airports is just theatre and serves no real purpose, other than to keep us in fear of terrorists so the sales of bullet proof vests and small arms remain robust. When an incident occurs, we should hunt down and kill the perpetrators. Other than that, and routine vigilance to try to prevent successful attacks, we should just carry on. We know we can’t ever have security, so let’s not take away all our freedoms in the attempt to get it.

    Of course I’m dreaming. The international police state is warming up and writing the regulations. I despair, or would if I thought despair had any value. Instead I shall be happy in spite of it all. That’s my way of saying “Fuck you” to the forces at play.




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  87. Mord_Sith says:

    FreeFox, I suspect we’re talking about the same people, I know of them as the 1%, the 1% of the population that controls 90% of the wealth. It’s what the whole OWA protests were/are about, the fact that these people collude to dredge the market of every red cent they can get no matter what or who they destroy in the process (just look at the subprime mortgage crisis as a recent example.)




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  88. Chiefy says:

    DH, I second your “fuck you”!

    FreeFox, thanks for your insight and the glimpse into your private life. Good to see you in here again. I have new short post you might be interested in. http://cafenexo.com/word/prophet-muhammad/




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  89. plainsuch says:

    I have been wondering if I am Charlie Hebdo. On the con side: my satire is weak and predictable, plus, I take no risks – there is a large ocean between me and the zombie revival. On the pro side: Charlie and I are on the same team. But if I am Charlie Hebdo then I am Baga even more so.

    http://qz.com/324612/boko-haram-is-turning-into-the-next-islamic-state/

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/boko-haram-deadliest-massacre-baga-nigeria

    To rephrase an old line, It’s Wahhabi’s all the way down.




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  90. Shaughn says:

    Maybe this will give some insight in the causes of the mental disorder named jihadism/terrorism:

    http://jrs.sagepub.com/content/early/2015/01/07/0141076814565942.full.pdf

    Jesus and Mo are circumsised, and Mo’s followers have to be, don’t they?




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  91. IanB says:

    Darwin Harmless said “America is now calling for taking away the passport of anybody who visits Muslim countries, and putting them on the no fly list”

    Is that particular countries or all Muslim states? The UK has been making noises about those going to Syria and Iraq to join in the conflict there. Just thinking there’s a whole lot of states with which we do business (gulf states spring to mind) which are certainly Muslim and others predominately (Malaysia).




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  92. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    FreeFox, just a brief one as I’m in a hurry, but thanks for the insight to the mind damaged by enforced belief. It’s given me a perspective I hadn’t had before.
    I’ll elaborate later.




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  93. plainsuch says:

    America is now calling for taking away the passport of anybody who visits Muslim countries, and putting them on the no fly list.

    Is that real or is that Fox News ( aka Faux News )? The only thing I found was a report that Canada had voided the passports of people who had joined ISIS.

    When the World Trade Center was bombed twenty-some years ago it was considered to be the criminal act of lunatics. Six people were tried and convicted by the usual legal system , the charges included conspiracy, explosive destruction of property, and interstate transportation of explosives. No ‘terrorism’ panic was necessary. When the World Trade Center was attacked again in 2001 the corporate media, led by Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News, started screaming, “Be very afraid, because – Terrorism”. Fox News has been twisting everything possible into a terrorist threat every since. And Americans have passively surrendered one civil right after another.

    I suppose most people already know that, I say it again to lead up to a couple of observations. One, that Police States and Terrorists seem to be symbionts. When a state locks a group out of the political process they are likely to turn to terrorist tactics. The fear of terrorism helps the oligarchs of that police state consolidate more power and lock more people out of the political process.
    And second, a great state needs a great enemy. An enemy strong enough to be seen as an existential threat by most of the citizens of that nation. Without being unified by a common outside threat people tend to dissipate their energy on providing for their families, friendship, compassion, and independent thought. Effective terrorism seems to require training and resources from outsiders. It seems that great enemies have been happy to supply this service for each other since the era of the Cold War began.

    It’s probably just a coincidence that the USSR fell and the official Cold War wound down between the two attacks on the World Trade Center.




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  94. Plainsuch, what a profound question. Is that real or is it Faux News? I have no way of knowing.
    I heard one Republican senator proposing this idea. Can’t find the link to that now.
    A quick Google search gave me this: http://rightwingnews.com/top-news/uh-dem-senator-blocking-ted-cruzs-bill-seize-passports-isis-militants-returning-us/

    I don’t think it’s actually in place yet, but they are working on it. So far they seem to think they can tell whether a person has only gone to Syria, or not gone to Syria via London and Germany. So far they seem to think that they can tell whether a person has gone to be trained in terrorism by ISIL, I’m pretty sure they will get a net in place and then make the mesh smaller. But I know nothing, really.




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  95. Mary2 says:

    Aust is definitely going the way of a police state. Our govt now cancels the passport of anyone travelling for the purpose of fighting in Syria or Iraq and plans to arrest anyone returning from fighting. The really scary bit is that the presumption of innocence has gone and such people will now have to prove they were travelling in the region for legitimate purposes.




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  96. two cents' worth says:

    If I remember correctly, (1) Germany has a program in place to re-integrate into German society people who left the country to fight in Syria and then returned to Germany, and (2) the program is successful in most cases. People who have repented of fighting in Syria are a great help in persuading others to stay out of the fight. I hope that the US, Australia, and other countries will learn from Germany’s example.




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  97. two cents' worth says:

    I looked it up. It’s Denmark, not Germany.

    There is a cycle where people are persuaded to leave their home countries to fight in Syria and Iraq, and then return home to stage attacks there and to persuade others to go fight in Syria and Iraq. Two interesting papers on this are http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/2014/09/30-syria-foreign-fighters-byman-shapiro and http://soufangroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/TSG-Foreign-Fighters-in-Syria.pdf

    I’ve emailed Senator Mazie Hirono, my senators, and my representative to let them know that the US should learn from Denmark and other countries that are succeeding in breaking the cycle thanks to their reintegration programs and other programs that address other points in the cycle.




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  98. Gus says:

    I am not Charlie Hebdo because I don’t believe hate speech is a sound weapon against ignorance and fanaticism.

    I mourn the dead, but to me they are not martyrs of freedom of expression. There’s plenty of those in China, Sri Lanka, Burma, sub-Saharan Africa… not in the realm of “Western Civilization”, so who cares.




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  99. micky says:

    Gus, in what way is Charlie Hebdo, the comic, or ‘Je Suis Charlie’, the phrase, hate speech?




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  100. Gus says:

    micky, American media won’t publish the Charlie cartoons because under US law they are liable to be considered ‘hate speech’.

    Also check out a good piece by Jordan Weissmann on Slate elaborating further




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  101. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    Micky, the short answer is that it isn’t.
    Unfortunately there are a lot of people judging CH solely on the cover pictures without any idea of the context, so the ‘monkey’ cover is labeled racist; the ‘welfare queens’ icover s condemned as racist and sexist; the cover depicting a naked Muslim woman with burka apparently hanging out of her arse is deemed sexist and pro-rape, and so on.

    These are people who don’t speak French so don’t understand the accompanying caption; they have little to no understanding of the French political situation and French culture in general, so have no comprehension of the ideas and events being satirised; and they also appear to have no idea what satire really is.

    But just try explaining that to the Guses of the world. You’ll be called a ‘racist, sexist, homophobic, misogynistic, rape-enabling shitstain’ before you get past the first sentence of your defence of CH.,

    Gus, old love, context is everything. Try understanding before condemning.




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  102. IanB says:

    Gus says: “American media won’t publish the Charlie cartoons because under US law they are liable to be considered ‘hate speech’. “

    That would appear to be the British media, the BBC is refraining from printing today’s cover although mentioning it on both their webshite and the TV. Fair play to the Washington Post in that they’ve printed it in large size and the Guardian has too albeit a minuscule version.




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  103. Gus says:

    Thanks for the condescension, Acolyte. That will certainly help towards my improvement.




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  104. jop says:

    I like the Nous cartoon, but isn’t it time for a new one again by now? May still play on the same theme. E.g. by bringing the barmaid into play again serving the Charlies a pint to drown their sorrows.
    Or has jesusandmo shut down out of fear for some mentally ill folks swinging AK47s?




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  105. micky says:

    Nah, islam doesn’t need protecting from anybody, it’s the other way around. Je Suis Charlie.




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  106. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    Gus, why not focus on the points I made instead of smarting over that final line?

    Again, the cartoons do look bad when shown without context, which is why it’s important to try to understand that context for yourself. Don’t let your opinion be guided by the knee-jerk reactions of others when a little research could bring you the fuller picture.

    BBC News have just shown the new CH cover on the television.
    Racist bastards, eh?




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  107. HaggisForBrains says:

    BBC 6 O’clock News tonight has shown the front page of the latest issue of Charlie Hebdo. This afternoon the newscaster issued a brief simple warning that they were about to show it. I can’t say if they repeated the warning tonight as I had just switched on and missed the intro.




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  108. Stephen Mynett says:

    Very surprising for the pro religion BBC but a pleasant surprise. Hopefully they will progress from here.




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  109. two cents' worth says:

    jop, Jesus & Mo is a weekly cartoon that is usually updated on Wednesday. This cartoon (dated Jan. 8th, 2015) is a special edition. I expect to see the next regular edition on Jan. 14th.




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  110. plainsuch says:

    Of course that also means that conversations tend to come to and abrupt stop on Tuesday night. It would be nice if there was some way to tell when old threads have been recently active.




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  111. WalterWalcarpit says:

    Author, thank you for this interruption to normal service. A perfect fit, as I hope the T-shirt will be.

    Je Suis Charlie, because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

    Kudos to the French, as this episode could not have happened to a more principled people. The great USofA has long since lost its libertarian way and that is probably no coincidence given the corporate modus operandi that FreeFox alerts us to.
    My sourest note was the sight of Netanyahu parading in Paris with the otherwise magnificent throng.




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  112. WalterWalcarpit says:

    Hello FreeFox, May I add my humble hugs to the other sincere welcomes?
    I guess we have all missed your erudite contributions these past months – writings that are special because they are informed by some deep connection with a harsh world that is far removed certainly from my cosy, if not complacent, existence. I am back in Brisbane for a while and I was just yesterday contemplating the almost idyllic cross cultural conurbation that it has become – yet it is far from safe from fanatics of religious or political persuasion. Vigilance is one thing, landslides are another.
    I also found your analysis of the mental torture that adherents of Islam face on a daily basis that might be expected inevitably to find escape in random acts of violence quite profound. I always wonder about the vested interests of those at the top of the pile – what is it that motivates them to do as they do? For some it is clearly organised crime but what other motives are out there?

    And I know what it is like to desire to contribute to a long passed thread. I might have missed contributing to this one.

    However it is your insightful reminder of that other front, the insidious TAFTA, TTIP, TPP, et al, that we are perhaps deliberately being distracted from. I must say that it had not occurred to me that the two might be connected. Where I saw mindless self-righteous stupidity, mixed with a good measure of corporate opportunism, in the recent wars in the Middle East, I had not actually considered a concerted global conspiracy. Perhaps the unambiguous connivance of Faux News, indeed the global Murdoch empire, should have been a clue.

    So help me please. For I must admit to have been over preoccupied with the seemingly interminable threat of religious fundamentalism recently and would be guilty not so much of taking my eye off the other ball as trusting it to others to defend.
    May I ask for some guidance, some evidence, of the conflation of these two struggles of this time. Both of which show the significant progress of humanity in the recent half century to have been but a happy blip that others will be paying for for a long time hence.




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  113. IanB says:

    It would indeed appear the BBC either grew some or succumbed to pressure and finally showed the front cover. Interestingly it would seem the special edition of Charlie Hebdo sold out despite the many extra copies, eBay is now awash with over priced ones.




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  114. two cents' worth says:

    You might want to give eBay a miss. On the news this morning, I heard that, after the special edition of Charlie Hebdo sold out, the publisher announced plans to print 2 million more copies. (Why pay more on eBay when you might be able to get the magazine at the cover price?) If you want a copy, it’s best to pre-order–apparently, it’s thanks to the pre-orders that the first printing sold out.




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  115. hotrats says:

    Just to dive off-topic briefly, did anyone hear hear about Christopher Hitchens’ deathbed conversion? Apparently in his last hours, he called for a priest – and converted him to atheism.




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