There’s been a lot of this recently.

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Become a patron here.

UPDATE: This comic was posted a minute before I heard of the appalling act of terrorism in Paris. I have no words adequate to express my grief and outrage.

In sympathy and solidarity with Charlie Hebdo:

Discussion (74)¬

  1. Markus+River says:

    I am a rational secularist.
    You are a strident atheist.
    He is a rabid, god hating bigot.

    ‘Twas ever thus.

  2. K+P+Spong says:

    “Contre nous de la tyrannie,
    L’étendard sanglant est levé”, as someone once wrote.

  3. Robert+Andrews says:

    If fudamentalist means that’s my starting point and all further proof must come from that , then I’m ok. I’ll call myself a fundie-atheist. And those are the details, and they’re important

  4. Canneloni says:

    As a fundamental atheist myself, I am also in full support and sympathy with Charlie Hebdo.

    The attack on the Charlie Hebdo offices were, of course, absolutely nothing to do with the wonderfully peaceful and unaggressive religion of Islam, as many politicians and newspapers will no doubt rush to confirm.

  5. Humans Eh! says:

    Author: People like yourself are at the frontline of freedom’s defence.
    The more darkness these savage sub-humans impose,
    the brighter your light will shine.
    Shine on and be safe.
    Still the world sleepwalks into mental slavery.
    Sigh – Humans Eh!

  6. Nemo81 says:

    Humans eh. They are not sub-human – far from it, their crimes show they are all too worryingly and frighteningly human…and Cannelloni from my times out among those with really incredibly silly belief systems, I can say that many will be truly disgusted by what has happened. Equally some will not and too many will stay silent for fear of something untoward happening to them.

  7. jerry www says:

    Perhaps some in France will finally begin to question the open citizenship that was freely given to residents of some of the former colonies, est-il pas vrai?

  8. Gus says:

    I bet my balls these maniacs are lawful residents of France with thick backgrounds on fundamentalism, just like the gunman in Sydney was. Deporting them? No, no, no, that would be islamophobic. But letting them roam around to freely go on a homicidal rampage and casually drive away in time for the afternoon prayer? Mais, bien sûr!

    Time to toughen the fuck up, Western World.

  9. Gus says:

    Sorry for venting, this makes me sick to the stomach.

    There will always be armed psychos in the world. I’m mad at the guys ‘on our side’ who fail protect us. The justices who parole these idiots, the police and intelligence systems who ignore all the red flags, the immigration officials who give you a tough time for flying in with a piece of cheese but let these maniacs transit freely. We need to get our act together, seriously.

  10. Humans+Eh! says:

    Nemo81, I understand what you mean. I usually observe my fellow man in all his absurdity with a certain amount of sympathy and often exasperation (Hence my moniker!) but this threat to freedom of thought from islam is so serious that it needs to be confronted and defeated. Appeasement is not the way forward any more. I simply reserve the option to de-humanize these people who place human life below stupid ideological fanaticism. The Gates of Vienna have been breached and the enemy is within. Europe is being dragged into a very dangerous and dark place.

  11. Markus+River says:

    Apparently the French authorities are pursuing three individuals. Were it not for the tragic loss of life, it would be amusing to observe the contortions their political “elite” will doubtlessly put themselves through, as they explain this outrage as a particularly unfortuitous outbreak of collective “mental illness”.

  12. Alastair says:

    I await the apologists who condemn the atrocity but then say in a round-about way that Charlie Hebdo brought it on themselves.

  13. Emma+Peel says:

    Those fucking rotten bastards…..the worst, most cowardly of a cowardly, fucking disgusting lot. Stay safe Author.

  14. HaggisForBrains says:

    I have to swear! That was fucking appalling! Fucking cretins! Take care, Author, we all love you and your work, so continue with the low profile. The world needs Charlie Hebdo and J&M. Ridicule is our best weapon. But who can truly understand the mindset of someone who assassinates 12 people because they are offended.

    In spite of the above, I hope that the authorities do not use this sort of thing as an excuse to impose a police state on us. It’s too easy to over-react and rush through ill-considered laws which could significantly restrict the freedom and privacy of the sane and law-abiding.

    Good cartoon, BTW 😀

  15. Mark says:

    Given the absurd assault on freedom of expression in Paris, a heartfelt vote of thanks for what you do. Shining a bright critical light on hypocrisy is the only sane response.

    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité,

  16. Nassar+Ben+Houdja says:

    Fundamentalists don’t give a hoot
    They don’t answer questions, they shoot
    No mater which ideological species
    Fundamentalists are feces
    Deserving a boot to the snoot.

  17. Matt says:

    Every time you hear ‘these people don’t represent Islam’ remember 78% of British muslims support punishment for people who publish cartoons of Mohammed (2006 survey by NOP Research) and 36% of young British muslims believe apostasy should be punishable by death (2007 survey by Populus).

    “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned” (The Quran)

    “Whoever curses a prophet kill him” (Mohammed)

    I think they represent Islam quite well.

  18. two cents' worth says:

    I know very little about history and geography, but it seems to me that Christian totalitarianism (as exemplified during the European settlement of the New World) eventually abated, though it has not disappeared completely. How did it come about that secularism topped Christian totalitarianism in Europe, the U.S.A., Canada, Australia, and similar countries? What are the chances that secularism will top Islamic totalitarianism in the world, and how can we help that process along? Also, how can we prevent Islamic totalitarianism from topping secularism in countries that currently have freedom of religion (including freedom from religion)?

    As you may already know, among those killed in the attack on Charlie Hebdo were editor-in-chief Stephane Charbonnier (Charb) and cartoonists Cabu, Wolinski, and Tignous. On the BBC Newshour this morning, I heard Ernesto Priego call these men public intellectuals. The Author is also a public intellectual. I hope his anonymity helps to protect him from deadly reprisals.

    I’m reading The perfect kill : 21 laws for assassins, by Robert B. Baer. One of the things he explains is how very easy it can be–not just for spies, but for anyone–to assassinate someone. Dear Author, I hope you remain safe and well.

  19. Suffolk+Blue says:

    I already heard one English commentator (unfortunately did not get his name, but well-educated sounding establishment type) saying that it’s a deplorable act, but that what CH published was over the top and “evil”


  20. Rafael says:

    In times like these I wish I believed in god to have the comfort of knowing these animals would suffer in hell for ever. What a completely pointless and absurd massacre. My thoughts are with the families of the victims. I’m outraged. There will always be nutters but religion does encourages scum like those psychopaths to commit atrocities.

  21. two cents' worth says:

    As for today’s cartoon. . .

    So, “fundamentalist” has become a slur, just as “Nazi” did. I guess the Barmaid is humoring J&M because it’s been a long day and she’s too tired to argue with them. I think the details of the definition do matter. I have heard of some Islamic fundamentalists, and even some Christian fundamentalists, who are using violence now to hasten the day when (they hope) their religion will be the only belief system in the world. I have heard of outspoken atheists, but I know of none that are using violence like these Islamic and Christian fundamentalists are. I know of no atheist equivalent to the calls in the Islamic and Christian scriptures to convert or kill unbelievers.

    In the comments under the previous cartoon, plainsuch gave a good overview of one of the atheist fundamentalist sects 😉 , The Church of Reality:

    Our motto is, “If it’s real, we believe in it.”

    We are Monorealists, which means we believe in The One True Reality. This Reality is the sum of everything that actually exists.

    We care about what is real, not what we think is real or what we want to believe is real. The Church of Reality puts “real” Reality first.

  22. jean-françois+gauthier says:

    i don’t know if that made it to the english-speaking media but here’s what stéphane charbonneau (“charb”) wrote in 2012 (my translation):

    “Peins un Mahomet glorieux, tu meurs. (paint a glorious muhammad, you die)
    Dessine un Mahomet rigolo, tu meurs. (draw a funny muhammad, you die)
    Gribouille un Mahomet ignoble, tu meurs. (scribble an ugly muhammad, you die)
    Réalise un film de merde sur Mahomet, tu meurs. (direct a crappy movie on muhammad, you die)
    Tu résistes à la terreur religieuse, tu meurs. (resist religious terrorism, you die)
    Tu lèches le cul aux intégristes, tu meurs. (brown-nose integrists, you die)
    Pends un obscurantiste pour un abruti, tu meurs. (take an obscurantist for an moron, you die)
    Essaie de débattre avec un obscurantiste, tu meurs. (try to debate an obscurantist, you die)
    Il n’y a rien à négocier avec les fascistes. (nothing to negociate with fascists)
    La liberté de nous marrer sans aucune retenue, la loi nous la donnait déjà, la violence systématique des extrémistes nous la donne aussi. (the freedom to laugh withtout restraint, the law gives it to us already; systematic violence by extremists also gives it us)
    Merci, bande de cons.” (thanks, you bunch of cunts)
    — Charb

  23. PK says:

    Horrible thing, which happened in Paris, at the French satirical magazine “Charlie Hebdo” office today, 7 Jan 2015.

    I hope “Jesus and Mo” will continue to go strong.

    At the same time I wish, that Europe would not do same grave error as USA before: starting an illegal war is a war crime, regardless.

  24. freethinkinfranklin says:

    looks like Bill Maher was right… will Ben Afleck and those that called him a bigot apologizes now? i’m not holding my breath. religion poisons everything… period !!

  25. jean-françois+gauthier says:

    among other drawings (they have a long a dignified history of doing just that), charlie hebdo had published a full-front-page cartoon of mo crying “so hard, being worshipped by cunts”. (

  26. JohnM says:

    At six this evening, there were multiple “rassemblements” all over France. Disappointed we couldn’t make it to the one near us because of prior engagement, but my wife and I were there in spirit. One must never, never capitulate in the face of fascism.

  27. Robert+Andrews says:

    I hate to agree with Mao Dze-Dong. But “Religion is poison”. All members of this site need to email their local paper to urge strong condemnsation of this act. And the publication of the cartoons in question.

    The next few days will be a test of heart for western iseas of freedom and secularism. So we need to email our local press, NOW! Other wise things could calm down-when action is needed.

  28. Strobes says:

    Dear Author, Thank you very much for your clarity and courage. Stay safe. Dear Commenters: thanks for the laughs and insights.

  29. Je Suis Charlie says:

    RIP Charlie Hebdo. very very sad. ‘Je suis Charlie’ – liberty equality fraternity. freedom of speech.

  30. smee says:

    Its quite nauseating to watch the cowards at Channel 4 news and the BBC, suddenly discover that they wish to support this “Free Speech” Thing!

  31. Plainsuch says:

    OK. I’m an atheist fundamentalist. With the caveat that atheists are more fun and theists are more mental. I believe that Belief is just another word for Opinion, and the Universe don’t give a hoot about my opinions.
    How is it unfair for me to mock the willfully ignorant and the willingly deluded?

  32. I’m horrified, enraged, shaking.

  33. Nobody will ever tell me that I do not have the right to laugh at his god (with a small g) or his prophet (with a very small p). I laugh at this Mohammed. And this is kind of strange, because I also hate him. And right now I’m crying. But nobody will ever silence me.
    Keep up the good work.

  34. Je+suis+Charlie says:

    Support to you and all other defenders of free speech

  35. Maggs says:

    It’s absolutely abominable. I have few words and they are either long or obscene. These people are grotesque parodies of human beings. Nous somme tout CHARLIE

  36. Matthew Parris of the London Times remarked recently that more people have died in the USA a result of bee stings since nine-eleven than from terrorist activities. He asked his readers not to overreact to the the tiny threat posed by Muslim fundamentalists. I think he was altogether too smug and complacent. Islam is on the march and there are many adherents of that religion, who are prepared to go to any lengths to reposnd to perceived or imagined insults to its prohpet and god. Fundamentalist Islam poses a threat to the rest of us just as toxic as Hitler’s Fascism or Stalin’s Communism.

  37. botanist says:

    Again I wish there was a ‘like’ facility.
    Reading the above I, again and again, wished I could ‘like’ the comments.
    I especially identify with Maggs and Ophelia (please bring back your butterfly!).

  38. Don says:

    I just want to do something, I don’t know what, to show solidarity for these guys but everything seems so …oh fuck

  39. John says:

    Well said
    Look after yourselves

  40. Jon B says:

    What a shitty world we live in some times. Seems it only gets shitter as time goes on.

    I feel, like Don, that I should be doing something, but can’t really work out what.

    Author, keep up the good work.

    Je suis Charlie.

  41. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    Still gathering my thoughts on this but had to say:

    Nassar, thank you for showing understanding. I’m not sure the Nassar of old would have seen with such clarity. 🙂

  42. Rev. Dr. Pastafarian says:

    Those of you holding your breath to learn “What are the chances that secularism will top Islamic totalitarianism in the world, and how can we help that process along?” need first to get rid of your Missionary Fetish (“How can we help!?”) and second, to ramp up thinking in terms of biology and population genetics. Consider patterns of cousin and closer marriage in Islamic tribal societies.

    Consanguinuity in Islam, and democracy

    Tribalism and mating patterns–effect on social dynamics

    Oh, hell, just see all her posts on mating patterns in Islam/Arabic cultures/the Caliphate and etc.

    Also: explaining the rise and fall of the Islamic golden age:

    And finally, on the atheist hope that Muslims can be just like us if somehow something something something:

    I am an ordained minister in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I spend most of my time trying to convince liberals and progressives that evolution is real and didn’t stop for humans, the Chosen Species, 50,000 years ago. We are in the early years of understanding the biological basis of religio-social beliefs and behaviors, and many questions are too forbidden to be engaged openly, in research. Politics and ideology cannot answer these questions; neither can social engineering. The question isn’t what “we” “can do” to “help them.” The question is what we are willing to do to keep them from turning our societies into chaos and us into corpses.

  43. Baz says:

    nous sommes tous charlie.

  44. Gus says:

    Someone on BBC rants about defending Free Speech; thought pops up: at the time of the Danish Mo cartoons NOT A SINGLE media outlet in the UK published them.

  45. Emma+Peel says:

    I can hardly believe the utter senselessness of this. My heart is with you tonight France.

  46. Be safe, Author. The world needs you.

    I am Charlie. Je suis Charlie.

    Good strip, by the way. I think I too a fundamentalist atheist. I believe there is a fundamental reality, however unknowable, and we can find out about it using the tools of the scientific method. We don’t need to make shit up to explain stuff we don’t yet know.

  47. Jazzlet says:

    Thank you author, this seems like a good day to say that you are part of my week and I appreciate your work.

    And thank you Rev. Dr. Pastafarian for the links, fascinating reading.

  48. machigai says:

    Keep your head low.

    Nice one.

  49. Abhijeet says:

    Jain extremists allow mosquitoes to feast on their bodies. Islamic extremists slaughter civilians. Which is the religion of peace?

  50. Chiefy says:

    My comment on the attack:
    Stay safe, author. We need you, and more like you to keep speech free.

  51. Macha says:

    “Les canards voleront toujours plus haut que les fusils”

    Stay safe, Author.

  52. Feathers says:

    I thought of this site when I heard about the attacks in Paris – stay safe author, and thank you for daring to exist!

  53. Jon S says:

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

  54. Petrushka says:

    We are all Charlie. But you, Author, are the Charliest of us all.

    We need not just to love and support you but to help keep you safe and to publicise your subtle and insightful work.

    Thank you, and as the Japanese say, Gambatte!

  55. Clangerbird says:

    Sad to see BBC showing illustrations of Christian icons being satarised but inevitably nothing that these guys died for. Also UK press except Indy. Craven and utterly predictable

  56. nemo81 says:

    What continues to concern is that the extremes are becoming mainstream – here in England they drink warm beer and wear blazers. In France, the swivel eyed right is now respectable and has a good shot at being president and can doubtless invoke the spirit of Joan of Arc who of course had a hot line to her particular God.

    …and now the beardies in Europe many of them British, French , Belgian by birth and indeed culture, are going to find it harder than ever. Of course dropping their belief system is pretty damned hard if it’s been forced down your neck from birth. Many I fear may continue to build their self-defeating siege mentality and pushed to adopting a more extreme stance as they will be damned by the gobby ones within their religious / identity communities if they protest against crimes committed in the name of their deity and damned by the host if they don’t or not vocally enough.

    Lose – lose for everybody which is just how the swivel eyed beardy / blazer wearing nutters of either side want it. Hope I am wrong.

  57. extro24 says:

    The murders notwithstanding, my impression is that Islam, like religion in general, is slowly dying away. There is too much science, too much internet and too much satellite TV for religion to monopolize people’s attention. What may help is to look at the curricula at madrassahs and faith based schools – find a way to add more science and proper history.

  58. nemo81 says:

    extro – after several years in the slutting around the Gulf I would like to believe you. At the beginning of my stays when asked my faith I always said ‘none’ and got odd looks and then on one occasion tears. Faithlessness is simply not an option. It really isn’t. Punishable by death at worst and ostracism by family / tribe.

    After that I did not disabuse folk who wished to believe I was a Christian and therefore ‘of the book’ and OKish. Sure, the web especially with a censor fucking VPN (everybody should have one) , goes a long way and many young people are confused as to where they should stand in the world. Yet even among the more intelligent people with whom I worked, losing your religion is not yet a conceivable option, it is too ingrained into to the various cultures which are still essentially tribal. Moreover, my mate Tony who did the hippy thing in the 60s has some wonderful photos of Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Middle East of the late-60s and early70s – guess what very few Ninjas in view and lots of pretty women with lovely hair and miniskirts.

    It’s going backwards.

  59. plainsuch says:

    There were secular democracies in place in Iraq and Iran but that did not suit the likes of Exxon and British Petroleum.
    Seeing the material benefits of secular law and modern social practices versus the poverty of a thousand years of stagnation was the best argument against Sharia. But that did not suit the likes of the royal family of Saud or those relying on religion for power.

    It’s taken a gazzillion dollars of oil money to deliberately build the mess that you see. I’m not saying that all specific consequences were intended, unintended consequences are the human condition. But powerful people with mind-boggling amounts of money are happy with the direction things are headed.

  60. plainsuch says:

    Stochastic Terrorism

    You loudly denounce a person a group. Mixing in violent metaphors, you ridicule, dehumanize and blame. Keep the aggressive hyperbole going and eventually some random person will act on it. Maybe they are looking for acceptance into your group, maybe they just have a dysfunctional relationship with reality.

    Then you wash your hands and publicly step away from them. The things you said were just rhetoric, you tell the camera, you can not possibly be responsible for the actions of some lunatic.

  61. plainsuch says:

    I was Googling Charli Hebdo images, my French is extremely weak but it is obvious that they took on Jewish and Christian religions as well as Moslem. How many of the apologists who blame the magazine for being too offensive were theists secretly wishing to see the magazine taken down?

  62. two cents' worth says:

    Rev. Dr. Pastafarian, you wrote, “The question is what we are willing to do to keep them from turning our societies into chaos and us into corpses.”

    Exactly! (But my hope is that we can do so and still live in societies that maintain our civil liberties. I hope that we ourselves do not end up turning our societies into chaos and piling up heaps of corpses.) Thanks for the links; I’ll check them out later today.

    May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage 🙂 .

  63. two cents' worth says:

    Rev. Dr. Pastafarian, the links you provided led me to excellent articles. Thanks for introducing me to the field of HBD.

    I guess our best hope is that, although members of the FBDM (FBD-endogamous Muslim) culture are violently campaigning for the world supremacy of that culture, their campaign will be ground into dust, because the inter-clan friction inherent in that culture will cause the campaign to implode, while the willingness of the members of exogamous cultures to band together in defense of their nations enables them to crush it.

    For the (very) long term, perhaps now that more members of the FBDM culture are living in countries with exogamous cultures that support freedom of religion, some of them will marry outside of their clans; some of those wired for religion will convert to a more tolerant faith; and some who are not wired for religion will see that it’s possible to live without it and will start to do so.

  64. LaurenLL says:

    I love Jesus and Mo! Satire is one of the cornerstones of a healthy culture and that cultures exist that don’t understand this and threaten people who use it tells me more about them than about the culture they’re attacking. I’ll continue to read these strips and, as a progressive, I will continue to grow and learn and laugh. Laughter is also an indicator of a healthy society.

  65. extro24 says:

    Nemo I have very little experience of the Gulf and I take your word for what you are saying. I am only referring to the places and countries that I have visited, which are mostly in Europe, North America, the Far East and Africa. The links provided by the Rev Dr Pastafarian are priceless. I hope everybody here reads them. Humans are apes that have always lived in tribal structures headed by an Alpha Male. Religion is an instinctive but fruitless search for a Cosmic Alpha Male. The ingroup solidarity and outgroup savagery of religion would be magnified by the FBD cousin marriage of the Arab Muslims.

  66. FreeFox says:

    @ Extro/Nemo: As someone who has been living for the last couple of years in Egypt and Turkey, I am afraid I have to agree with Nemo. It’s definitely getting worse. Yes, some people are becoming more secular, especially in the big cities, but overall far more people are becoming more religious, more bigotted, and more hateful.

  67. Reid+Malenfant says:

    Perhaps the biggest stumbling block in the Secular West is the near total and wilful ignorance of Islamic doctrine and history. Islam has an entirely different raison d’etre and a more precisely defined modus operandi than any other ‘faith’; such knowledge is crucial in all our dealings with the Islamic world.

    Unless and until the wider populace, and in particularly Politicians and the media, become better informed we will continue to be unwittingly played by the rules of 7th century Arabia. Their strategy is simple, effective and clearly laid out for all to see – but for enlightenment you need to go to the source material and not to it’s adherents.

    Perhaps the realisation that Islam is as much a Political ideology as it is a religion may eventually remove the blinkers from some in the chattering classes; particularly once they grasp that it is as right wing as any Fascistic party could possibly be – it’s not called ‘submission’ for nothing!

    Muslim Apostates have the most credible perspective in all this and yet these brave people are woefully under appreciated; they deserve a far wider hearing and support and, not least, our full protection.

    I grew up hearing my father and grandfather saying “Never again!” ….. I fear we facing a very hard road ahead.

  68. Robert+Andrews says:


    Right-on.. But you can’t say this in a libreral democracy, without sounding religionist’ (if such word exists). They have a totaltitarian ideology the same way christianity was 300 years ago. And I think modern people have a hard time dealing with this-I do. Moderate Muslims only muddy the waters.

    The bottom lne is: can the west feel safe with a large population of moderate Muslims in their countries? As a gay-atheist I’m scared.

    Sign at the Saudi Arabian border:
    Welcome to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. 1300 years of tradition unimpeded by progress. : – ))

  69. major_problem says:

    plainsuch: There were secular democracies in place in Iraq and Iran but that did not suit the likes of Exxon and British Petroleum.
    erm….. remind me when this was please, because I can only remember brutal islamic dictators or hard line theocracies.

  70. plainsuch says:


    Secular doesn’t necessarily mean not religious. I don’t remember right-off who was going to nationalize Iran’s oil, leading to The Shah. Somehow countries with valuable resources always end up with corrupt authoritarian governments. If a government comes to power that puts the interests of it’s own citizens ahead of the interests of foreign corporations there always seems to be an assassination or coup or something.

  71. Uncle+Roger says:

    “I await the apologists who condemn the atrocity but then say in a round-about way that Charlie Hebdo brought it on themselves.”

    That would be the pope.

  72. mist42nz says:

    Puzzles me when people are throwing the Fundamentalism word around.
    Used to get it said a lot in Pagan circles, when our more oppressed than thou* decided they’re being picked on by “Fundamentalist Christians”.
    Most Fundamentalists are more busy worrying about Orthodoxy in their own doctrinal system than picking fights with others. People Like Martin Luther (the 16th Century priest) was a fundamentalist.
    As far as I understood Fundamentalism is about getting back to the original foundations of your own belief system. Not the Popes words, not the recent rulings of religious councils, not the latest author or preacher. In revealed religions that would be, “what was the holy message?”

    For Islam, the “Fundamentalists” are likely to be at home and more annoyed about the bomber types than anyone else. After all, most of Islam was designed for a civil society to work together, it’s not actually assembled for attacking each other.
    Christianity, being assembled by a Roman Emperor for unity his country, before the priests of Mithras united his miltary without him, is far more useful as a crusading “army of Christ”. But only a few representatives were allowed “in the meeting of sorcerers in a far off land, to which christ visited and the sorcerers burnt their books and adopted Christianity” so the smaller “true followers” and “Jewish mystics” didn’t really feature much in the Roman modernisation.


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