Discussion (24)¬

1. Troubleshooter says:

   November 27, 2019 at 3:16 pm

   THE LAST THING any religious leader wants is for his followers to read their holy book BY THEMSELVES … because there’s no telling what they might run onto. Things like Psalms 137:9 if they’re talking to Jesus … or Surah 2:191 if Mo’s little love poem is in play.

   The purpose of bible / quran study is as much to steer AWAY from the problematic verses as to highlight the supposed “good stuff.”

2. Jesus F Iscariot says:

   November 27, 2019 at 3:48 pm

   Apparently when the King James Version of the Bible was written people didn’t talk like that. Thy authors hath scribbled in that manner to engender a mystique. Then some people started talking like that. Like the real mafia guys who started talking like the characters in the Godfather. Thou shan’t mimic bullshit I’d say. Thou shalt not be snowed by spiritbabble.

3. Laripu says:

   November 27, 2019 at 4:35 pm

   Troubleshooter, here’s part of the defense-of-scripture algorithm:
   1. For anything really problematic, claim that it’s a metaphor.
   2. Whenever there’s anything good that’s widely shared by all societies everywhere, claim that the only reason societies follow it is scripture.
   3. For anything hateful and discriminatory, claim that it is the literal word of god and therefore must be followed.

   There’s probably more. Feel free to add, everyone.

4. Moomin says:

   November 27, 2019 at 5:47 pm

   I’d add in number 4 you’re reading it too literally it’s a parable not a miracle.
   I remember this one clearly as a child, being taught the feeding of the 5000. I asked, “did Jesus make each loaf and fish really big or cause them to multiply so there was enough to around?” Guess the thought of enormous fish being carved up was more interesting.
   I was told that this was a parable because once the crowd saw 1 boy had given his loaves and fishes (only in John’s version) then the rest of the crowd saw that sharing was a good thing and there was enough food. Still remember thinking “but that’s not what it says, and if Jesus can walk on water, rise from the dead, heal the sick etc why didn’t he just magic a whole load of food for everyone. Still took me another decade or so to undo all the indoctrination.

5. Tinkling Think says:

   November 27, 2019 at 6:38 pm

   Moomin, virtual stuff.

   Quantum physics has the idea of virtual bits of thingys falling into a sort of “existence” from out of the bubbly vacuum. They don’t last long, they are tiny and they vanish away as though they never were but they can have real effects on “real” stuff [whatever that “is”].

   All a superbeing with magical superpowers [such as Hulkie, Ironman and many others] needs to do is to pull virtual stuff from the quantum foam, give it semi-contnuous existence and force sufficient masses of it into shapes such as green muscles, flames, suits, ice bridges, fishes and loaves.

   No one noted whether the 5000 stayed fed or whether the eaten fish sarnies quietly vanished away.

   It should be rmebered that no one reported the fishes being cooked, either, nor were condiments, tracklements or soy sauces mentioned. Bread sandwiches with only bits of raw fish as fillers would not be the usual fare for the locals; it may have caused severe indigestion in many. Or worse.

   Virtual particles. The ultimate low-carbs, low-fats, zero-protein, artificial sweetener free, gluten free diet.

   Walking on water? A simple matter of increasing the hydrogen bond strength among the surface molecules, which is a mere matter of probability manipulation. If the Scarlet Witch can do it …

   Raising the dead? That’s just restarting a fire. Millions of neolithics managed that trick daily.

   Healing the sick? That’s a mere application of radiation therapies. Target the “demons” [or “germs” as we call them] while shielding the humany bits. Accelerated healing is a matter of temporal manipulation; make time run faster in the regenerating tissues.

   Water into gold or lead into wine? Sub-atomic particles shuffling. Basic telekinesis, a trick any decent superbeing posing as a deity should master. “Star Trek” transporter technologies, the food replicators, could manage it handily.

   J.C. had some cool tricks but they weren’t by any means “miracles”. By the reports, he never performed anything the Enterprise crews didn’t manage weekly for decades.

   It’s just a pity Mr.Roddenberry hadn’t been invented back then to call his bluff.

6. Tinkling Think says:

   November 27, 2019 at 6:54 pm

   “… It should be REmembered …”

   Quantum Mechanics allows for all sorts of cool things, such as entire cities emerging from out of the event horizon of a super-massive black hole, the planet Krypton exploding from same or virtual “Enterprise‘s” popping out of the vacuum foam by the million just when they are most needed to defeat the fleet of neutronium wormies. [Does anyone else remember them? I always thought they would have made a far better first movie.] They are all highly unlikely and the odds of anything really weird happening is so low that it probably won’t before the heatdeath of the cosmos but they can. For a variety of senses of “can”.

   All a magician needs to do is to fiddle the books.

   One would imagine that among a hundred thousand million-odd humans who have ever lived someone would have worked it out.

   Unless it’s impossible?

7. hotrats says:

   November 27, 2019 at 7:04 pm

   Just passing loaves and fishes through 1000 hands would be enough to turn them all into fishy slime and breadcrumbs.

8. Troubleshooter says:

   November 27, 2019 at 7:16 pm

   Hmmm … “no one reported the fishes being cooked…” Is it possible this was one of the first incidents of sushi in the western world? [grin!]

9. Darwin Harmless says:

   November 28, 2019 at 7:55 am

   Why not get millions of copies printed and hand them out for free? Hah. Can you imagine the outcry from the Christians if Muslims formed a Gideon Society style organization to put a Koran in every motel bedside table. That would be fun to watch.

10. Deimos says:

    November 28, 2019 at 9:45 am

    Two of my favourite travel essentials, the koran and sushi. Either one will get you the whole table to yourself on a train.
    For a table on a really crowded long distance train then add in copy of “Practical electronics”. For even worse trains i.e. London to Holyhead, you may have to respond by smiling at anyone looking for a seat. But to do this properly you must not put anything on the seats around you or be anything but charming.
    Played this game for years and I usually keep my chosen domain empty of everyone but me.

11. Paul Seed says:

    November 28, 2019 at 1:49 pm

    Traditionally, you could stop the faithful from reading the book if it was in a foreign language (Sanskrit, Latin or Arabic) or if they were illiterate. These days, that is much harder to maintain. But Mo still has a go.

12. M27Holts says:

    November 28, 2019 at 2:14 pm

    D.H. they do. I got a copy in Bolton town square a couple of weeks ago….It must be my big bushy beard…

13. surfstuff55 says:

    November 28, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    “Thou shalt not be snowed by spiritbabble.”
    That makes a great first commandment!

14. jveeds says:

    November 28, 2019 at 5:39 pm

    Troubleshooter: that issue about the fishes (New Testament story of loaves and fishes) has always perplexed me too. Since the “sea” of Gallilee — the only available water in the vicinity of the tale — is actually a FRESHWATER lake, consuming fish hauled out of there would be extremely hazardous. Of course, consuming fish from a salt water source has its hazards; people have been doing it for eons. So even though Jesus may have blessed the two fishes before multiplying them, they’re still coming from a source no one should eat directly from. Unless…unless…maybe the remote hillside folks of Bethsaida had set up a community BBQ grill! Yeah, that’s it.

15. Tinkling Think says:

    November 29, 2019 at 2:01 am

    From Troubleshooter:” Is it possible this was one of the first incidents of sushi in the western world?”

    That, dear youngster, is why I mentioned gastric distress. As jveeds subtly hinted at, a lake used as a communal latrine by entire populations may have fish that are not entirely approved by the Foods Standards Agency, fish that could be weakened sufficiently by pollutants to be vulnerable to parasites some of which can transfer to humans.

    Sashimi from local lakes even in those days of quite low human population numbers would not be a good idea. Cooking was one of the great human inventions. That and washing your hands before performing surgery.

    Anyway, many locals may never have eaten raw fish so doing so for the first time would have been … interesting.

    jveeds, one more question that arises is whether the J.C. magic replicator superpower would replicate bugs as well as fish and bread. Were I to feed a flock by way of magic, I’d build in a bio-filter but perhaps Jesus missed those episodes?

    Darwin, I collected a free “Bhagavad Gita” from a monk on my local high street last week. It’s a lovely book, well printed, good paper, hardback and very nicely bound. No Christian, Muslim, Jew, Sufi nor Atheist tried to burn either of us down. Indeed, when I passed him again a while later he was talking to some one else in a friendly manner. England is still quite a tolerant place in general.

    I doubt if a freebie Koran would upset anyone. If left in the same hotel drawer as the Gideon it might even do what my books seem to and breed more. It would be interesting, were there a Gideonesque Koran giveaway, to see which sacred text got stolen more often.

    Fuller disclosure, while I’ve read the Gideons when I forgot to take my own literature, I’ve never nicked one. I would far rather leave it for others to enjoy and I already have bibles – and other books. Lots of other books.

16. Alexander Jones says:

    November 29, 2019 at 3:58 pm

    When someone praises the quality of a book’s paper, I can’t help wondering *exactly* what they plan on using said paper for…

17. Laripu says:

    November 29, 2019 at 4:34 pm

    I miss Frank Zappa. He’d have a lot to say about the state if the world. This seems like an appropriate spot to post the lyrics of Frank Zappa’s “The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing”.

    Some take the bible for what it’s worth
    When it says that the meek shall inherit the Earth
    Well, I heard that some sheik has bought New Jersey last week
    ‘N you suckers ain’t gettin’ nothin’

    Is Hare Rama really wrong
    If you wander around with a napkin on
    With a bell on a stick an’ your hair is all gone
    The geek shall inherit nothin’

    You say yer life’s a bum deal
    ‘N yer up against the wall
    Well, people, you ain’t even got no kinda
    Deal at all
    Cause what they do
    In Washington
    They just takes care
    Of Number One
    An’ Number One ain’t you
    You ain’t even Number Two

    Those Jesus Freaks, well, they’re friendly but
    The shit they believe has got their minds all shut
    An’ they don’t even care when the church takes a cut
    Ain’t it bleak when you got so much nothin’

    So whaddya do? Hey!
    Eat that pork, eat that ham
    Laugh till ya choke on Billy Graham
    Moses, Aaron ‘n Abraham:
    They’re all a waste of time
    ‘N it’s your ass that’s on the line
    It’s your ass that’s on the line

    Do what you wanna, do what you will
    Just don’t mess up your neighbor’s thrill
    ‘N when you pay the bill, kindly leave a little tip
    And help the next poor sucker on his one way trip.

    Some take the bible…
    Aw gimme a half a dozen for the hotel room!

18. M27Holts says:

    November 29, 2019 at 9:33 pm

    Zappa could play a MEAN guitar…The rock axemen give me hope for human kind…..needless to say islamic savages have again forgot to groove with the rest of us 21st century hippies….two more victims to the memory of mo….

19. Someone says:

    November 30, 2019 at 4:06 am

    Well, if you ever run out of toilet paper or tissues in a hotel room, the Gideon bible or proposed koran should do in a pinch.
    The last hotel where I stayed in Tasmania had one in its drawers. I just put my copy of From Russia With Love on top of it and forgot it was there until I felt like reading my own book.
    Funny that was the same holiday where I attended an art exhibit highlighting homosexuality in an intolerant, Christian society, held in a deconsecrated church.

20. M27Holts says:

    November 30, 2019 at 2:17 pm

    ^ aye. Here in blighty we are releasing warriors for mo, giving them a second chance at those virgins….Imagine how the families of the victims feel? However, mentioning that the koran is equivalent to mein kampf is hate speech and islamaphobia…

21. postdoggerel says:

    December 1, 2019 at 2:27 am

    the attack on london bridge was brusk,
    about two hours before dusk.
    it was one in, all in,
    to the terrorist’s chagrin
    when attacked with a narwhal tusk

    one wonders whom we can thank
    after letting him out of the tank.
    it’s not the almighty,
    but those blokes from the blighty,
    whose valor you can take to the bank.

22. jb says:

    December 1, 2019 at 4:38 pm

    This question is not just who let the attacker out, it’s who let him in in the first place.

    Oh wait, I see he was born in England. That changes everything. Why he’s as British as pork pie he is! Move along folks, nothing to see here, nothing to see…

23. postdoggerel says:

    December 2, 2019 at 5:33 am

    Ireland had never persecuted the Jews “because she never let them in

24. M27Holts says:

    December 2, 2019 at 3:20 pm

    ^ Apparently the killer was a deciple of Bin Laden and had a big picture of his idol on his school book? Some other students complained and were told that their concerns were “racist”….