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This will be obscure to you if you don’t know the backstory. Last night, Channel 4 News did a piece on the Maajid Nawaz/J&M controversy. They showed the comic, but censored Mo – thus playing to the worst stereotype of Muslims as violent fanatics, pushing liberal Muslims “further into a ditch” (Nawaz), betraying the principles of journalism in a democracy, and providing fuel for true anti-Muslim bigots.

Nice work, Channel 4 News.



Discussion (149)¬

  1. NSPike says:

    As much as this was quite probably inevitable in a comic depicting Mohammed that has been running for several years, it doesn’t make it any less irritating and frustrating to see the whole issue dealt with the way it is. Hopefully it isn’t getting you too down, Author, or getting in the way of your actual life (where more important things than pictures of prophets occur on a minute-by-minute basis).

    Also, Acolyte of Sagan, I noticed on the previous thread the troubles Mrs o’Sagan is currently facing, Mary2 said it best but hope she gets well soon!

  2. HaggisForBrains says:

    F**king brilliant! One of your best, Author! Good to see a new character on the strip, even if somewhat one dimensional.

  3. Paul Sellick says:

    Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. What a great response to the appeasers at Channel 4. Well done to you yet again Author.

  4. Jcorcor says:

    Why is it that Christians want Jesus’s picture plastered everywhere and the Muslim’s are so against spreading Mohammed’s image? Could it be that Christ was the only white man in the Middle East 2000 years ago?

  5. Roger says:

    More power to your (considerable) elbow, Author. Rest assured I complained to Ch4 last night about their pathetic pandering to the terminally stupid.

  6. Necessary+Evil says:

    Has everyone forgotten the first J&M strip? In it the character called Mo indicates that he is a body double of the Prophet Mohammed. That’s a bit puzzling given that no one’s got an actual image of the prophet because that’s banned. Never mind, though. The point is that it’s not a picture of Mohammed (only his body double) and there’s nothing offensive about that, surely. We’re talking about a guy who says he thinks he looks like what Mohammed would have looked like. What’s offensive about that? There can’t be anything offensive about a body double. Point me to a scripture that says there is.

  7. Alfie Noakes says:

    Nevertheless, getting J&M on the national news must’ve been quite exciting. Even if Channel 4 don’t have the minerals to show an unfettered Mo (shame on you, Channel 4, and so on and so forth).

  8. Ivan says:

    Is that a shell double?

  9. henry ford says:

    Yet another example of bad taste. Shell suits went out of fashion 30 years ago. I was very disappointed with C4, but there you go…..

  10. plaineng says:

    Finally, a reason to watch the news. xo

  11. Janis says:

    you knew it had to happen eventually, Author. better days ahead. (and yes, in a really bizarre way, it is funny-sad).

  12. IanB says:

    Even Private Eye didn’t grow a pair and publish the Danish cartoons so CH4 are continuing the kow towing of the popular media to the fundamentalist nutjobs.

  13. Incredible. Both C4’s stupidity and your brilliant response. I think you have created a new meme, a simple black oval denoting Islamophobia. Now put a red circle around it and a diagonal bar and it goes on a t-shirt. for those who get it. Oh yeah, it also needs the words “Get off me I can’t breathe. ” Should sell a million of ‘em.

  14. Nassar+Ben+Houdja says:

    The latest fashion in probe paraphernalia
    Is that of media hysterical Islamophobia
    They probe under burkas.
    Covering clowns from the mid east circus.
    Submitting to terrorists from utopia.

  15. jiveboy says:

    C4 should hang their head in shame. They are supposedly know to stand up against tyranny and intimdation. Yet here they were acting as hypocrites singling out Mo as someone to be covered due to sensitivities – no thought to be consistent and cover both images. Surely this is a clear afront to Christians and a slap in the face – your faith is irrelevent to them!

  16. Graham+ASH-PORTER says:

    I don’t understand how the imams get away with lying about images of Mo! There are numerous paintings of mo from a few hundred years ago. Somewhat similar to women covering their head and arms.

  17. Bll says:

    both Jesus and Mohammed are equally prophets in Islam and equally subject to non-pictorial representaton objections – Ch4 covering just one up is daft

  18. Second Thought says:

    Brilliant! I love the jagged speech bubble for the Black Egg. Once again i admire the layers of meaning you manage to impart through J&M. Islamophobia makes it hard for Muslims to beathe, and to speak safely. Especially telling as this ‘controversy’ started with a moderate Muslim saying he wasn’t offended by the depiction of Mo in J$M.

  19. Andrew says:

    Isn’t Jesus a prophet in Islam too? Is a depiction of him allowed?

  20. Brilliant way of dealing with it. It made me laugh despite all the grim fury.

    That thing Maajid said about the ditch struck me too. What DO they think they are doing??

  21. jiveboy says:

    What a disgraceful action by Channel 4 News. A programme that always supposedly fought against intimidation to democratic rights and hypocrisy! The fact they covered 1 image to not offend the Muslim faith but left the image of Jesus in plain view shows their total disregard for fairness. Christians may well be offended in some way but not give death rates out and simply accept in our democractic country in which we live it is possible!!

    I think you are creating a buzz a lot of people with get behind and support.

  22. omg says:

    So , from now, if I draw a black oval, I will be censored because it represent Mohamed…
    Just a reminder : http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/04/reading-university-atheist-society-thrown-out-blasphemous-mohammed-pineapple_n_1939317.html

    I think it is time for the next International Blasphemy Day (we will have to wait until 30 September 2014 for this).

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_Day

  23. Emma+Peel says:

    Author, a masterpiece. You will never run out of fodder. I hope to be reading your ‘toons well into my dotage. Thank you for not shying away from Black Eggs and other nasty bits.

  24. CJ says:

    Darwin Harmless – brilliant. I’d buy a t-shirt like that.

  25. JohnM says:

    This makes life rather easy for non-artistic people like me when “Draw a picture of Muhammed Day” next rolls around.

  26. Jacqueline says:

    I too was disgusted at Channel 4’s stance last night. Darwin Harmless, great idea for the T-shirt, I want one. Please.

  27. CJ thanks. I do like the b word, especially when applied to something I said. I sent author some fan art. Maybe he will show it to you.

  28. Joe Sixpack says:

    Congrats, you’re on the reliably excellent http://www.popehat.com/ !

  29. Jacqueline says:

    I too was disgusted by the stance of Channel 4 News last night. To Darwin Harmless, great idea for the T-shirt, I want one. Please.

  30. JohnM says:

    @DH
    I’m not sure I get the T-shirt idea as one for providing C&B regular’s apparel. The opposition to Islamophobia would be Islamophilia, and for that it seems none of us fit the bill. We need a statement that says we are Muslimophilic, as befits people who relish the diversity of silliness that everyday life throws up.

    People who believe in winged horses, walking on water and huge tidal surges at opportune moments bring a regular supply of hilarity into our lives. Without them there would be no “Jesus and Mo”

  31. Mary2 says:

    This bizarre mindset that seems to be seeping through the UK over the last few years is truly scary. Somehow it is supposed to be ‘respecting’ Muslims to act as if they are all fundamentalist extremists who will kill you if you offend them with a picture of their prophet?

  32. Mary2 says:

    Such idiocy MUST be shown for the lunacy it is or we lose to the extremists. How much of our fundamental beliefs and values (e.g. free speech) will we part with to appease a tiny, loony proportion of our population? Surely the right response to the idiots should have been to firmly put them back in their marginalised place where they belong not give them such validation by conforming to their ridiculous and oppressive ideas? How long before all female news-readers are required to wear a burka just in case three loons are offended by the sight of the female face? The bit that makes me most angry is that the supposedly sensible majority are pre-emptively surrendering. The Nazis have invaded Poland and the British surrender immediately just to get in early before a fuss is made.

  33. Ian Jones says:

    Glad to see you’ve reclaimed the word “Islamophobia”- the irrational FEAR of Islam, not hatred. I actually prefer dog’s eggs to this.

  34. not quite says:

    Seriously? About fairy stories? Prefer LOTR myself x

  35. botanist says:

    Just seen dear Author being interviewed by Paxman on BBC1. Please don’t let fame go to your head, Barmaid needs you :-)

  36. Avatar says:

    Unbelievable! As a homosexual Atheist I must say Islam offends ME! Why aren’t the Universities, the media and the government protecting my rights to be an highly over sensitive person?

  37. djdummy says:

    The BLACK EGG has spoken. Long live the omeltet.

  38. Sovereign Man says:

    Any religion that has such incredible intolerance to criticism, true, justified, or otherwise, has no right to exist among civilized man. The Koran is an evil piece of mental vomit, much like Mein Kampf. Realize this, or pay the consequences.

  39. djdummy says:

    a dish of beaten eggs cooked in a frying pan and usually served with a savoury topping or filling.
    – ORIGIN Fr., earlier amelette (alt. of alumette), var. of alumelle, from lemele ‘knife blade’.

  40. John-the-bap says:

    re. Not Quite at 29/2307: JRR’s “LOTR”, B5’s “LOTR” or mine? Mine expands to “Love On The Rails”. It’s about a man, an emotion and some long strings of steel and is several volumes long.
    I thought B5’s was boring, repetitive, derivative (of itself, mainly) and pretentious but JRR’s was longer and even less logical, I mean, if the big pigeons can pick them up after why couldn’t they drop The Company off near the Mordor border, sorta, on the way down? It would have cut several books out of the series.

    Mo’s lot have the same type of logic flaw. They won’t allow depictions of the prophet yet they allow his words to be quoted freely.
    They say those words are “truth” yet they also claim Mo the peado is the last prophet when we know there have been at least four major prophets after him. They lie. They are frauds. And they are illogical.
    As are C4 news. C4 news are pandering to a mob of psychotics while a church just as big, just as rich but a lot less likely to behead the C4 newsreaders owns most of a USA State. Or has even C4 news forgotten the Mormons?
    The prophet Joseph Smith was greater than Mo the child-raper, less evil than Mo the liar and <b.AFTER Mo the fraud.
    Aren’t C4 worried about offending them?
    No. because mobs of rampaging, screaming, uneducated, ineducable savage Mormons don’t destroy TV studios and hang news-readers and burn the corpses while dancing and cheering.
    Offending, even forgetting the Church of Jesus Christ of The Latter day Saints will not bring murder down upon you.
    Pissing-off a Muslim will.
    The children who follow the fiftieth-latest and sixtieth-greatest prophet have temper tantrums like ill-trained toddlers. They are not adult human beings. They are not Real Men. They are petulant infants bleating because they wet themselves and no adult has come to change them.
    They can’t cope with real life. They aren’t adult enough, wise enough, smart enough, Man enough to cope with reality.
    Petty little children unable to accept life.
    I pity them all.
    They are so small and their world is so very poor.
    I truly pity them.

  41. Niall says:

    Hi
    I missed this the TV on Tuesday and knew nothing of the egg. But on Wednesday I was reading the strip at the same time I saw it on C4 news; coincidence or miracle? I must consult my god. By the way, it flabbers my gast that the party members complaining can honestly think they are liberals in any sense of the word. I am scared.

  42. HaggisForBrains says:

    Glad to see the site is working this morning, as I couldn’t access it at 10.50pm last night. I hope it was just because of the extra traffic.

    Thanks, botanist, for the tip. You can watch the Paxman interview here. The article starts about six minutes in, and the interview about eleven minutes in. Don’t expect to see Author, but at least they didn’t use a black egg to hide his face.

    For more information about whether or not it is blasphemous to portray Mohammed (Piss Be Upon Him), have a look at Faces of Mohammed. It seems that depicted him was OK up till the C16 – C17. Here is a typical one from the 14th century. I have to say I prefer Author’s version, even if it is just a body double. It’s about time Author’s version was added to this website.

    I think we’re going to have to book the function room at the Cock & Bull from now on.

  43. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    Beautifully put, Author. An object lesson for the mad mullahs in how to react to an insult.

    Many thanks to all for your kind words. Mrs. o’Sagan is now back home with a mouth-full of stitches and some superficial bruising, but thankfully free of the sac of poison that had caused one side of her face to balloon.
    I showed her your messages – her eyes leaked a little.
    You are all good people.

  44. Author says:

    @AoS Thanks. Best wishes to your wife for a speedy recovery.

    BTW, is it just me, or does Mo look frightened in panel 2?

  45. David Crabtree says:

    Channel 4 did it again with their incomprehensible sense of ?????? political correctness I guess

  46. Hanne65 says:

    Please make a T-shirt with Channel 4’s black egg. That is one we can all wear without the risk of offending anyone! ; )

  47. WalterWalcarpit says:

    Does Mo look frightened? Aye, he does indeed. But in the next panel he rather looks as if he has sat on the Black Egg.

    @ HfB I’m still in Brisvegas and can’t watch the interview and it will be gone before I get back. Any chance you or someone else could post the pertinent part onto googletube?

  48. IanB says:

    I have the entire program saved but as for Yuotube it looks like the BBC have already done it – saving any issue with copyright.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JETbhvU2BYw

  49. IanB says:

    Oh and the bit where Paddy Pantsdown shows his lack of backbone is there too.

  50. JohnM says:

    @IanB

    Indeed Lord Ashdown seem.s to have forgotten his Liberal roots and is now obviously a Democrat.

    What really was missing in the interview was the Newsnight interviewer did not take an opportunity, when discussing the rights and wrongs of giving offense, to point out there is a strong likelihood the vast majority of people in Britain today find Islam offensive. But they don’t use that as an excuse to attack and kill Muslims, do they.

  51. Virtual_me says:

    I was also disgusted with the BBC (Newsnight) who made a point of saying they weren’t zooming in on the t-shirt. Why are they appeasing these fanatics? Frankly I find burkhas offensive (repression of women), but they show those on TV.

  52. c1lived666 says:

    Jcorcor: You asked, “Could it be that Christ was the only white man in the Middle East 2000 years ago?” The answer is that no one today knows what Christ looked like and because of his ethnicity it is highly unlikely that Christ was “White”. There are no clear descriptions, before his death, given of Christ appearance in the New Testament and all that is known about Christ’s origins is his ethnicity, i.e. that he is Jewish. The only note in the New Testament on his features is found in the Book of Revelation which describes a glorified Jesus (e.g. the head and hair as white, ect.) in a vision (KJV 1:13-16), but the vision refers to Jesus in heavenly form, after his death, and not his appearance during his life on earth. According to forensic anthropologist Richard Neave and Mark Goodacre, a New Testament scholar and professor at Duke University, a Jew of that time, place, and period would have appeared with skin that is more olive-colored than white and with short, curly hair and a cropped beard.

  53. JohnM says:

    A rather good piece here.

  54. 66S says:

    Long time lurker – first time poster. (Hi all.)

    Firstly thanks muchly to Author for your consistently excellent and usually hilarious strips, except for when they’re teeth-gnashingly tragic.

    Ta too to all here in the C&B, you provide an oasis of interesting thought and stimulating banter sorely needed in my current situation.

    Onto my niggle. This may be long.

    I must just voice my disagreement with the recent “Real Men” trope floating here. Whilst I understand the attraction of infantalising and ‘insulting’ our opponents I think it fails on a number of levels.

    Firstly it proclaims supposed true masculinity as the preferred ideal, a palpably laughable notion which denigrates half the planet’s population. It also adds to the discomfort ( and worse) for those who either have ‘real manhood’ thrust upon them or barred from them, contra their own sense of self.

    Secondly it’s insulting to some of our fine women warriors to call them ‘real men’. They are not. They are strong vocal women. They did and do fight for rights, which, in today’s misogynist online environment means enduring a daily barrage of death and rape threats. To do so sans pseudonym must take immense strength and courage. Allow these women their own inspiring identities.

    Finally I feel infantalising and othering our opponents is self-defeating. These religious leaders are neither naive nor numpties. It’s impossible to be so and gain the power that they do. They understand exactly what they’re at as they manipulate their mob. Mentally pigeonholing them as tantrum-throwing twits reduces your ability to battle them effectively, even if only due to subconscious underestimation of the threat they pose.

    Them’s my thoughts on the matter anyway.

    Tl;dr: please consider dropping the “real men” rubbish.

    Right, as it’s my first post I guess the first round is on me, and I’ll have a Guinness and whiskey please barmaid.

  55. Micky says:

    Looks suspiciously like a burqa to me.

  56. Chris Moos and Abhishek Phadnis are shortlisted for Secularist of the Year (as a duo). Their J&M T shirts appear on the press release. (Gita Sahgal and Nick Cohen are also shortlisted (each, not as a duo).

    http://www.secularism.org.uk/secularist-of-the-year-2014.html

  57. c1lived666 says:

    Nahla Mahmoud argues that authorities, groups and individuals who use apostasy as a weapon to silence others or to justify their existence need to challenged.

    It is sad that Channel 4, with all of its resources, does not have the moral and ethical courage of one man, a man called Nahla Mahmoud.

  58. John-the-Bap says:

    66s : Welcome. Have a virtual pint of Bailey’s and Pernod on me.

    About your points, I dunno. *My* woman never objected to being called a real man. She was, however, far more of a man than any stick-wielding, infantile baby having a temper tantrum over a cartoon.
    She was a Man, a Human Being, an intelligent, caring, compassionate, loving, wise and wonderful adult person. And she was real. What else should I call her? A near-real, near-man-by-virtue-of-gender?

    As far as infantalising the savages, well, that’s their doing not mine. Were they to stop jiggling in the streets, waving sticks and screaming like demented two-year-olds every time they don’t get the full and rapid attention from the adults that they think they deserve I may treat and think of them as adults. An adult can discuss stuff, can mock stuff, can even laugh at himself and his own stuff. They can’t, seemingly, even let us laugh at their stuff though it affects them not. That’s not adult behaviour that is the reactions of a child.
    Yes, friend, I do know the thieving, paedophiliac, drug-pushing, massively peculating, gun-running, Masters Of The Universe in charge of a few of these churches who send out the little girls with bombs strapped to their chests are better Princes than old Mack ever dreamed of being [as are many of our most odious politicians] but they still behave like spoiled toddlers, expect their grunting followers to behave like spoiled toddlers and have all the manners, tolerance and civilisation of spoiled toddlers. They claim to demand respect when what they really want is power, luxury, more drugs, more money and more children. They use an army of deluded babies with all the adulthood of a soggy nappy as their main club to get what they want, or the threat of it which is usually enough – as seen by C4’s craven capitulation to their intolerance and bigotry.
    I don’t think their bosses, the drug-running priests of those churches actually believe what they spout. I suspect you are correct and they are just leveraging the rage of the mob into power and prestige for themselves – anything is better than having to work for a living – but they still behave like brats having tantrums.
    So we should treat them as such. Not as respected religious figures. We should mock and laugh at them all day. Even our leaders should.
    Fuck their money. Fuck their political support. Fuck them.
    They are not worth spitting on.
    And I truly do pity them, even their powerful, pampered and wealthy leaders. They waste so very much of their lives being so angry over trivia and they miss so much important stuff like the beauty of a woman’s conversation and the view as she walks across a street towards one, smiling with love. Not to mention all the maths, science and other satanic filth they so detest.
    They are babies having tantrums over imagined slights no Real Man (male or female) would care about.
    And I pity them all.

  59. John-the-Bap says:

    re 66s : Just to be terribly clear, I do NOT underestimate those babies waving sticks nor the vicious, selfish scunners driving them. I am smart enough, educated enough, experienced enough and wise enough to be able to see evil and malice and calculating cleverness in their pretended posturing.
    Some of them are vastly more clever than the dancing fools in the streets. And their cold, nasty, inhuman clawing for power terrifies me. A little.
    Why do you think I never give my real eddress or name?
    There’s enough room in front of my home for herds of their daftest, most riled-up two-year-olds to have temper tantrums and that worries me.
    Not very much, as they have far more prominent annoyances to burn, maim, slander, libel and dismember before they work their way down to me but enough that I do not underestimate their ability to cause harm and mayhem.
    Or their ability to win.
    As they will.
    C4 tell us they almost have.
    Would C4 news have blocked out a cartoon of Moon, Smith, Jones or any of the other, later, greater prophets? No. Because their followers are rarely stirred into mob violence by ruthless vermin and their bosses wouldn’t cut funding to C4, cut advertising revenue or otherwise inconvenience them.
    The Muslims know they have won. They know they can pretend fury at any imagined slight and they will get instant apologies, instant reparations for all imagined damages and instant withdrawal of any offensive stuff.
    So why don’t they come after this page?
    Because, as 66s said and as I agreed above, they are not entirely stupid. Evil, yes, vile, yes, petulant toddlers, yes, but they have sly, calculating minds that cling to their drive for mastery over all and for that they need an Enemy. They need an Offence to fight. The need The Great Slight, the Great Insult, the Great Satan and C&B is one.
    Ban this, ban the tee-shirts and what would they have left to be offended over? One fewer Great Satanic Enemy.
    Besides all that, they are probably collecting names. If the NSA can track our home address from our electronic traces I’m sure the fat paedos can hire crackers who can do better. Fake names are some protection but not much. It is not impossible to track even through TOR and anonymisers.
    When the time is right, when the Ministry of Faith opens up, they will, they will come for those who “insulted” them. I’m betting on sometime like 2017. Probably March.
    Time to run, people.
    Take much money and only what you can easily carry.

  60. John-the-Bap says:

    re JtB at 30/1901 : I would like to make absolutely clear that I don’t just deride one particular superstition or the evil Princes that run it for their own earthly benefit.
    As an example of my totally eclectic mockery of the entire field of the “supernatural”, I present : http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/25943051 and wonder, politely, both what the Policeman is smoking and how the frak such a dimwitted lunatic can keep a job as a peacekeeper?
    Worse. He probably carries a GUN.
    Not only is he allowed out in public without a handler, a responsible adult, but he has a job and a weapon.
    It’s not only the obvious, stick-waving, infantile loonies we should be wary of. We should also worry about our “responsible, respected, pillars of the community” who can also go way over the edge and round the bend.
    I don’t blame the [probably uneducated and mis-educated] former tenant. She possibly hoped to do an “Amityville” and get some bucks, but that cop should be seriously fired.
    Of course, we have to respect his faith and his beliefs, however stupid, don’t we? So he’ll continue enforcing his deluded version of the law.
    Frightening. And one more reason to avoid that country.
    I know, not all their policemen are superstitious ninnies but it only takes one to kill you.
    And that is by far too much from me.
    It’s been fun but I’m running away before I type something irrevocable and insulting to the two-hundredth-greatest and four-hundredth-latest prophet.

  61. John-the-Bap says:

    re. AoS at 30/1143 : I am glad Mrs. AOS is better. Give her loads of gentle hugs and some from us, too.
    Oh, and regarding “free of the sac of poison that had caused one side of her face to balloon”, *ICCKK*.
    ‘Bye. Take care.

  62. Joe Fogey says:

    Sad not to see you on Paxman, Author but good to hear you speak so lucidly. Keep up the good work. The Black Egg is brilliant in showing how effectively fear of the extremists shuts out the light.

  63. sherkat says:

    Jesus must defend the Prophet and whip out his cat of nine tails! After all, Mo is his partner…..

  64. Burning Shrub says:

    I was wondering what your response would be. Love it! Although the new character is a little dark. Might scare the children.

  65. atandt says:

    While we work on not censoring depictions of, well, anyone, can we also please work on putting floors 4, 14, 13, etc. back into buildings? I feel that every time batshitcrazy nonsense is “respected”, it legitimises it in the eyes of the uncritically unthinking.

  66. JohnnieCanuck says:

    My suggestion for a t-shirt would be the original with two ellipses so that neither J or Mo can be seen. Across the bottom it could say, “We are both Muslim Prophets”.

  67. Mary2 says:

    Greetings 66S, and welcome. I hope my response to your (good) points about the use of ‘Real Man’ will be somewhat shorter than those of John the Bap.

    I totally agree with never using the word ‘man’ as an indication of all that is good and righteous about humanity just as I will never use the words ‘girl’ or ‘gay’ as an insult. In this instance I have used the expression firmly with tongue in cheek as (I had hoped) indicated through ‘scare-quotes’ and capital letters. I think the term is almost actually appropriate in this context as the people we are insulting are generally certain of themselves as being the pinnacle of human moral and spiritual righteousness and would equate this pinnacle with their gender (amongst other things). I don’t think there is anything which represents positive aspects of either humanity in general or masculinity in particular about the absolutely repulsive bullying and cowardliness of people who attempt to intimidate others into self-censoring any criticism of their worldview.

    Again, I generally totally agree with your point about “infantilising and othering our opponents”. However, in this instance, I find the behaviour of these cockroaches to be so thoroughly beneath contempt of any rational or thinking human that I hope to insult and ridicule them as much as humanly possible. These are totalitarians that would have the entire planet not only conform to their expectations of human behaviour but also of human thought. These people need to be challenged at every opportunity and by every means possible – including by kindergarten insults and name-calling.

    On a less self-righteous front: it amuses me to be childish and rude and, as I would be one of the first up against the wall under the rule of such as these, I think we are entitled to be rude and childish.

    Your point however is correct and, if I was trying to change their opinions with my comments, I would wholeheartedly concur. (OK, not actually much shorter than JtB – sorry everyone)

  68. Mary2 says:

    JtB, Good point about extremist revolutionaries needing an enemy to rally the troops against.

    Atandt, why are we losing floors 4 and 14? Pretending there is no Floor 13 I have heard of, but the others? Who finds them offensive/unlucky/whatever?

  69. St. Simian says:

    To Mary2

    Triskaidekaphobia and Tetraphobia among the criminally irrational.

  70. Suffolk Blue says:

    c1lived666 – I think you missed Jcorcor’s joke.

    *whoosh* as they say

  71. Suffolk+Blue says:

    JtB – enjoying your rants immensely, mate. You are the Christopher Hitchens to the Dawkinses and Dennetts of the regular boozers at the C&B.

  72. Suffolk+Blue says:

    JtB – enjoying your rants immensely, mate. You are the Christopher Hitchens to the Dawkinses and Dennetts of the regular boozers at the C&B. :-)

  73. plainsong says:

    Another example of C4 being spineless, not for the first time. Sorry Jcorcor, but Our Lord wasn’t white. Look at Orthodox icons for a true depiction. Western art gets it so wrong. And of course Jesus would have worn a turban, as did all men.

  74. Suffolk+Blue says:

    plainsong – think you also missed Jcorcor’s joke.

  75. Suffolk Blue says:

    plainsong – I think you also missed Jcorcor’s joke

  76. Suffolk Blue says:

    JtB – I am enjoying reading your rants immensely, mate. You are the Christopher Hitchens to the Dennetts and Dawkinses of the regular boozers at the C&B.

  77. Londonwoody says:

    Years ago we persuaded the Mother Superior of a teacher’s training college to ban her girls from selling the student rag magazine as it was offensive. We had to do extra print runs as a result. When will these idiots realise that imposing bans furthers the cause they are trying to suppress?

  78. plainsong says:

    Sorry Suffolk Blue, but the joke went over my head. As a sinful Christian I wish I had a £ for every Muslim who has asked me to pray for them when I go to mass. That is very humbling. Christians are on the back foot in our liberal society’s – and I speak as a liberal – , but we are pandering to them all the time. Religious intolerance is hardly new to the UK, BUT those who come here should respect our society. And for the record, Mohammed was not a prophet of God, John the Baptist was the last, introducing, tralaaa…Jesus our Lord and Saviour.

  79. IanB says:

    Mary2 “why are we losing floors 4 and 14?”

    It’s principally from Chinese culture if I understand it directly. 4 spoke is similar to death, the flip side is 8 is considered lucky. In my limited experience giving money as gifts is much more usual for birthdays etc in Chinese culture (ang pow AKA red envelope) it would be bad form to give say £44 and auspicious to give £80 irrespective of the difference in value.

  80. Suffolk Blue says:

    I’m very sorry, plainsong. I had no idea that you are a Christian. And to be perfectly honest, I hardly understand a word of your reply to me.

    I just wanted to point out that you’d missed the joke.

  81. silverwhistle says:

    Excellent! The ‘Black Egg of Doom’…

  82. I have just discovered J&M. Brilliant stuff! As an artist myself, I may have to do some fanart! I will definately be sharing this site with all the Kiwi and Aussie atheists at The Opinionated Atheist.

  83. Acolyte+of+Sagan says:

    Welcome, Sakura. Do you have any non-Facebook/Twitter links to examples of your work for those of us who aren’t in league with the Devil?
    I need to check that you’re not making blasphemous drawings of Author, but refuse to register at those houses of Satan to do so. :-)

  84. JohnM says:

    @plainsong
    “And for the record, Mohammed was not a prophet of God, John the Baptist was the last, introducing, tralaaa…Jesus our Lord and Saviour.”

    As you correctly point out, Muslims are clearly delusional and irreversibly duped – usually this happened when they were children. This straightforward observation should speak volumes to you about your own ‘faith’, but then I don’t believe in miracles as you probably do.

  85. INCUBUS says:

    Three cheers for the ‘Black Egg’! Channel Four News has excelled themselves in the fields of freedom of speech and expression, democracy and anti-censorship. Not. Meanwhile they promote the idea we live in a liberal, inclusive society that values pluralism in the broadest sense…unless, of-course, something is forbidden in somebody else’s religion and they are at extreme risk of feeling ‘all hurty’.

    Based on the logic that something is ‘haram’ ‘within Islam’ then presumably all of us who are NOT ‘within Islam’ should abstain from anything that Muslims find offensive e.g. eating pork, wearing mini-skirts, being gay, drinking booze, cross dressing, sex outside marriage, failing to go on a pilgrimage to Mecca- and all so as not to offend one religious minority. I suppose in the interest of inter-faith diversity this could be extended to all other religions as well, perhaps we should all observe the Sabbath out of respect for Judaism, or never use condoms in deference to Catholicism?

    Why not turn this on its head and have atheists making similar radical demands, like ‘your belief in a unifying abstract entity is deeply offensive and causes me deep and traumatic emotional pain’ ?

    “Our religion is the religion of Peace, and if you don’t agree with us, we will kill you!”

    Oh,puhleeeeze!

  86. WalterWalcarpit says:

    Atandt, why are we losing floors 4 and 14? And what have you done with Fenchurch?

    Pretending there is no 13 is more daft a superstition than not walking under ladders, which, after all, is a very basic health and safety measure and no way to build anything. Frankly pandering to that extent because of one culture’s myths makes it inevitable that we will loose the rhinos.

  87. WalterWalcarpit says:

    Just a quick note to observe that the irony meter might need a service.
    If we identify the Black Egg of Islamophobia as presently smothering Mo then what is the Black Egg of that was covering Author while he entertained Jeremy Paxman? (We hardly ever see the latter look so serious.)

    Anyone else see the irony in blanking out the artist?

    I mean, if Islamophobia is an irrational fear of Islam, what is the term for a perfectly rational fear that requires one to hide one’s identity from mad mullahs’ minions or another to black out anything that upsets them?

  88. DevonDreaming says:

    Hi, would those who think John-the-Bap’s inclusion of females in his “Real Men” is wrong also agree that “all men are created equal … ” does not apply to the female of the species, so misogyny and oppression are okay?
    Hell, even those rabid skunks jerking up and down and waving sticks are “men”, even if they are men who never grew up past the toddler stage. As they are all equally men, we should treat them so and give them the respect we do any naughty infant, by taking down their draws and giving them a good spanking. Live on TV.
    Well, they did say they wanted equality and that’s how we treat our brats.

  89. DevonDreaming says:

    Plainsong (nice name) (at 31/1426): If John-the-BapTIST (no relation to our very own J-t-BAP) was the last prophet, what was Joseph Smith? Are you telling us millions of Mormons were lied to by the Archangel Moroni?
    And how about the others mentioned in this pub, Jim Jones and Mr. Moon? Oh and the nice Mr. Icke?
    Question ; if Moroni lied to Joe how do we know Jtb-TIST wasn’t also lied to?
    Both claim a beardy guy in the sky sent them.

  90. machigai says:

    If John the Baptist was the last prophet, why is Revelation a book in the bible?

  91. DevonDreaming says:

    Last question: how did Mo (who isn’t, after all a real prophet but is only a stunt double so wouldn’t have magic superpowers) know the Egg is male? Or was that either a blatantly obvious politically incorrect assumption or the first time the PC/religious harpies have ever used English correctly by knowing that in general the masculine includes the feminine?
    Me, I think he just assumed anything buying in a pub has to be male and that even Mo’s stunt doubles are slightly sexist.

  92. INCUBUS says:

    Hang on- If the name ‘Mohammed’ is the most popular in the world (apparently) then why isn’t that blasphemous? I mean all these dudes walking about with the ‘Prophet’s’ name!? Isn’t that like a global mass impersonation? (Null points for originality there) And is it OK to rip the pee out of the Baby Jeebus? I thought he is supposed to be a lesser Islamic super-hero? …Cheese and Rice! It’s all so confusing!

    and now Mo has got egg on his face too….

  93. A little OT, but interesting how censorship works. Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Wd-Q3F8KM

  94. Anne Atheist says:

    I came fairly late to J&M but thank you, Author, for your wisdom and humour in this mad mad world.

  95. mary2 says:

    WalterW, I love the idea of loosing the rhinos! Very James Bond villian.

    Totally agree about the stupidity of pretending there is no 13th floor. Call it by whichever name you like but you are still standing on Floor 13 (or 4 or 14) – you can count them to be certain.

  96. JohnM says:

    Perhaps instead of having “13” on an elevator button one could offer instructions as to how the floor number might be deduced e.g “sum the squares of the first two prime numbers”

  97. JohnM says:

    I should have added – ‘This avoids the use of any numerals whatsoever.’

  98. Mahatma Coat says:

    Just watched the Youtube clip of C4’s interview with Author and enjoyed latter’s monosyllabic answer to the question of his not being concerned about giving offence. Offence is taken, not given. Once you’ve uttered something, you’ve lost control of it and how the receiver interprets its is beyond your control. There are those abroad who can construe all manner of utterances as offensive, and you don’t have to be of the Islamic persuasion to do it. In Australia, footy players get fined for making racial slights against other footy players. If I were the recipient, I’d be saying to myself, “Why should I be offended by what some under-educated, over-muscled, boorish yob has to say. I can’t control it and it is therefore pointless to get upset by the comment. And, it has no impact on my value as a person (if I ever had any).” Oh yeah. I suppose it’s possible to make a quid out of it and that might make me feel better.

  99. Mary2 says:

    Mahatma, While I agree with you about the preponderance of ‘taking offense’ in modern culture, I think the reasons for banning racial vilification in professional sports are slightly more complicated (and of positive benefits) than your implied ‘Blackfellas are over-sensitive’.

  100. Mahatma+Coat says:

    Hmmm, Mary2, I could have clarified that somewhat. I had no intention of suggesting that blackfellas are over-sensitive. (By the way, I use the term blackfella in an affectionate way.) I’ve no idea whether they are or not, but if they are, they have every right to be. The poor buggers (affectionate also) have been treated abominably and still are. Footy players are simply what sprang to mind. When our ex-PM Julia was accused of being barren by choice (or some such) by some dickhead polly, her response if I remember was to shrug and to suggest without saying so that he was a dickhead. I’d regard that as an appropriate response. Something similar happened when a 13 or 14 year old girl in the crowed hurled some epithet at a player (at the MCG, I think). His response too was a sort of shrug.
    Without wanting to imply the negative (honestly), what benefits do you see as having accrued from racial vilification laws.
    By the way, have you recovered completely from your bike accident?

  101. Mary2 says:

    Howdy Mahatma, Apologies, I have over-extrapolated from your previous offering. I agree the best way to handle such things is as Gillard and Adam Goodes (do I have the right name for the footballer? – not a sports fan) did: generally it’s better to let the maggots show themselves for what they are while maintaining the moral high ground – zero tolerance but without hysterical tizzy. I used to be a strong supporter of anti-hate speech laws and am still pleased that Andrew Bolt (nasty opinion column writer for the non-Aussies) was slapped around for writing racist drivel (a series of pieces on how named, educated, light-skinned high-achievers are obviously not ‘real’ Aboriginals but claim Indigenous status to further their careers) but I am coming around to the idea that legislating against the expression of thoughts (no matter how repulsive) doesn’t achieve what we would like it to achieve (change public opinion and show bigots they are not tolerated) and also opens up all sorts of censorship and thought-policing labyrinths down which we should not want to head. I did not mean to support racial vilification laws but merely professional sporting leagues demanding a code of conduct which bans sledging of the racist/homophobic variety. I think zero tolerance in a professional body, especially where the taunt is player to player, not only provides a more pleasant working environment but sends a loud and clear message to spectators that one can play hard, play to win, but without being an arsehole. I do think it is necessary to make a public show of what is or is not acceptable behaviour; of where we draw the line, otherwise we end up not standing up against anything and, by our silence, becoming complicit – a mindset like we are shown through Jesus & Mo wherein people are so desperate not to offend anyone that we don’t stand up and say ‘stop’ but allow any ideas/behaviours to become public and mainstream, because, well, who are we to judge – don’t want to offend – each to their own…
    Almost recovered from bike accident: certainly feeling a lot healthier. For someone who swore it was just a head injury and wouldn’t keep me from work I was off work for three months and am still working very lady-like hours (3 mornings per week) until I build up to full time – and this is for a desk job. We are still trying to determine the extent of permanent damage: but whatever it is I got off very, very lightly. More importantly, the car driver’s insurance has bought me a new bicycle! :) My spouse, however, has banned me from cycling to my new workplace :( – seems a fair compromise to me, I am astounded she will let me anywhere near a bike. Thanks very much for asking. The most important thing I have learnt over the last four months is that you don’t have to spend face-to-face time with people for them to be friends and that you don’t even have to know their real names. If you’ll forgive me for being sentimental, I have been blown away by the sincere and ongoing best wishes from people I hardly knew and even those I know only from a punny pseudonym on a website on the other side of the planet.

  102. WalterWalcarpit says:

    MaryII, I’m pleased to read that you continue to improve. I must admit I rather thought that your frequency at the Cock’n’Bull suggested ample rest. I’m still on holiday myself. Actually I tend to think that most visitors follow the conversations here in all their diversity with a diligence that is not in the slightest measurable by their individual contributions. Occasionally a long absence of a commentariarti is noted and it always seems to have been due to an extreme event that got in the way of joining in even if se hadn’t stopped reading – certainly that was my experience some seasons ago – and the rest of us only learn if one asks.

    Getting back to the thirteenth floor – you hit the absurdity on the head; one can count them! The bloody floor is still there whatever you call it. The only convincing solution, as distinct from rational, must be to have a completely empty and unattainable 13th floor – and then not give it a number.
    I do quite like JohnM’s solution, which would also serve the purpose of ridiculing the sincerely held beliefs of millions, but it would only work for me if every other floor is properly numbered and we were not all compelled to solve mathematical problems to progress – I’d never get to a scheduled meeting. Indeed it is only because I knew this answer that I even think I might possibly deduce it.

  103. I think we all need to take “I’m Spartacus” action by displaying Jesus and Mo cartoons wherever we can.

    We all have to do our bit in stopping the religious supernaturalists from using their whinging ‘I’m offended’ censorship.

    I am surprised that there weren’t a few bleaters from the Jesus camp on this – depicting their main chappie in bed with another fellow AND calling him a mere prophet when they think he is a GOD ALMIGHTY.

  104. Thank you for giving us – atheist, secularist, humanist – your lovely accessible, and funny Jesus and Mo cartoons. They epitomise the patriarchal religions, as between them and their camp followers, cause the rest of us, especially women, a lot of harm over the centuries.

  105. JohnM says:

    Archie Bland has a nice one-liner in the Independent:
    “It is easy to say: I defend to the death your right to say it. It is harder to ask the question that follows: how are we going to make this work?”

    @omg The BHA are fund-raising for their dedicated anti-faith-schools co-ordinator and have almost reached their target. UK taxpayers can make the ‘gumment’ contribute too – which given Mr. Gove’s proclivities is a nice irony :-)

  106. JoJo says:

    @Jcorcer et al on the ethnicity of Jesus: I think I’ve made this point before. Jesus was black. Look at the evidence – he loved Gospel, called everyone ‘brother’ and he couldn’t get a fair trial… Definitely black.

  107. GPPurnell says:

    There is a good sensible (because moderated?) debate on the Maajid ‘controversy’ at libdemvoice.org (2 or 3 threads – see the ‘most read’ section!). Note they did not appease Islamophobia in the same way, but published the cartoon that Maajid published, and called upon all liberals to support him. Which most Lib Dems appear to be doing, thankfully. Assisted if I may be so bold, by my good self… ;-).

  108. Mahatma+Coat says:

    Look, Mary2, I’m going to have to pick you up again! I’m only on the other side of the continent. This is a ripper comments page, the tone being set by by Author’s gentle humour and the sweet characters he’s created.

  109. Chiefy says:

    DH, your link on censorship made me think. If censoring something makes it sound more vulgar than it really is, maybe that’s the motivation for religious censorship. Getting your undies in a bunch over Mo’s image makes Mo seem more important. They aren’t afraid his image will be worshiped, they’re afraid Mo will be seen as an ordinary human. I imagine I’m not the first to point this out.

  110. Puck says:

    ”and to ridicule the sincerely held beliefs of millions.” – I’ll hold you to that.

    The butthurt displayed by muslims in response to pictures of the paedophile warlord ”prophet” mohammed is a sham; a control technique every bit as insidious as all the others they use…demands for ”special treatment”, whining as loudly as possible when they fail to subvert the agenda of the ”Free” World towards an islamic one i.e. that of SUBMISSION(islam), threats and false accusations…all intended to silence VALID criticism.

    Fact is, there have been depictions of the paedophile warlord ”prophet” throughout islamic history – You can go see some at the zombietime mohammed image archive if you like.

    Fact is, it is ALL depictions of ”creatures with a soul” that are haram, not just those of the paedophile warlord ”prophet” himself. If they are going to whine about images, they should equally whine about those of jesus too, and every other depiction of creatures with a soul in existence, including any they make themselves or use as avatars, etc.

    There is no prohibition against pictures in the hateful and backwards koran. None. I’d invite any muslim to prove me wrong about that.

    In the hadith, the paedophile warlord ”prophet” mohammed makes clear that makers of pictures of creatures with a soul will be asked by their allah to put life into those images. When they can’t, for they are not their allah, they will be cast into damnation along with us filthy unbelievers.
    See bukhari 5.338, 7.110/840/844, 7.842, 8.130, 9.165.

    If you want to know what he actually looked like – you can decipher it from the hadith also – Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 5791, Al-Muwatta Hadith 51.3, Sahih Muslim 5773, 5779, Sunan of Abu-DawoodHadith 4179, Bukhari 4.744, 4.747, 4.748, 7.787, 7.792, 7.796.

  111. Chiefy, I’m sure you’ve nailed it. They are not offended by the cartoon, they are offended because the cartoon trivializes their guy. Which of course it does. And should. And was created to do. For all the right reasons.

  112. Wow. This is wonderful. I just noticed the “click to edit” link. Oh, thank you, Author. No more stupid typos, as long as we catch them within five minutes. That should be time enough. I am sincerely grateful.

  113. Still can’t go back and get rid of that plus sign between my names though. Oh well, small thing that. I’ll get in the habit of catching it before my first “submit comment” click. Eventually.

  114. two cents' worth says:

    IanB, thanks for the link to the YouTube copy of Paxman’s interview of the Author! (The BBC Web site won’t let me view the video, given my geographical location.)

    Ophelia, I had never heard of the Secularist of the Year award before. Thanks for the link! I had to smile when I read that the festivities for this year’s award presentation include “a welcome ‘Jesus & Mojito’ cocktail.”

    Mary2, I am glad to hear that you are on the mend! The rest of us in the pub are rooting you on!

    And, AoS, it is good to hear that Mrs. o’Sagan is safe at home again. Best wishes for her speedy recovery!

  115. omg says:

    DH and Chiefy,
    Talking about censorship, you can change the message by censoring a bot of it :
    http://imgur.com/r/imgoingtohellforthis/MBOqsqM

  116. omg says:

    Wow, we can now edit the message. We have 5 minutes to do so.
    Thank Author…

    DH, You noticed it before me…

  117. Ophelia Benson says:

    Greetings from a public computer at the Seattle Public Library (a branch thereof). Note that access to J and M is not denied at this library, unlike (I’m told) some.

  118. Author says:

    Thanks, Ophelia. That’s good to know. I think Suffolk libraries are reviewing their software, so we’ll see how that goes.

  119. Yes, I was very relieved. [wants to hug SPL]

  120. Mary2 says:

    Chiefy, I think you’re right. How can somebody/thing remain on a pedestal if you are allowed to question, criticise or make fun of it? [Hehehe - I edited this, just because I can]

  121. OMG, thanks for that link. Hilarious. Amazing what censoring something can imply.

  122. HaggisForBrains says:

    The British Humanist Association has a regular podcast called The Pod Delusion. The current issue features an excellent essay by Matt Flaherty on the subject of Jesus & Mo and censorship. His talk starts at about 34 minutes in. Don’t miss his punchline at the end! Wow! love the edit function, which allows me to check that my link is working. Thanks Author.

  123. Sinnataggen says:

    Do J&M know how to take selfies? Would that pose a problem?

  124. Rafael says:

    Great cartoon: amusing and yet an intelligent response to the coward approach undertaken by the editorial team of Ch4. Why appease the minority of hard-core bigots by explicitly making the point to cover the “offending” depiction of Mo? They could have just shown the strip’s title (like Newsnight did) to the same effect and without bowing down to the extremists. Go figure. Also, great interview Author! You handled it very well and with dignity what could have been a tougher public drilling by a seasoned reporter. Respect!

  125. Rafael says:

    Another unrelated thing for all of you. The Author’s argument of the things one stumbles upon the net reminded me of the ‘very offending’ cartoons featured in Dark Matter 2525 YouTube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/DarkMatter2525. Although it’s basically a ‘miss and hit’ affair with several duds, he’s certainly produced some amusing gems. Dark Matter 2525 might lack the intellectual refinement of Jesus and Mo but it’s nevertheless a mindless guilty viewing pleasure.

  126. plainsong says:

    DevonDreaming, to ALL Christians of orthodox belief John the Baptist WAS the last prophet. End of. The Latter Day Saints-so called, are potty but reasonably harmless. Like so many fringe beliefs, and I include the JWs here, they latsh onto the ignorant and ill-informed. They are sincere in their faith, but I wish they would go a study the holy books handed down to us from the early church fathers.
    As to machigai, I defy any mainstream Christian scholar to explain the Book of Revelalions, beyond the persecutions that the early church was going through at that time. One thing for certain though, plenty of incense in Heaven!

  127. JohnM says:

    @plainsong
    So as well as delusional Muslims you are now adding Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses to the ranks of the great unwashed and duped. No doubt you feel likewise about Shintoists, Scientologists, Taoists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Janists, etc., etc. This means you are practically one of us – just one more idiotic creed for you to dismiss and it’s welcome to the club. Go for it :-)

  128. plainsong says:

    John M. I think that you are being a little hard. I have a great respect for the ancient faiths. Look a what the documents of the Second Vatican Council had to say.BUT those sects that have spring up and claim to be Christian without a shred of Christian identity I abhore!
    Oh dear, that will stir the pot, coz the atheists have NO AXE TO GRIND.
    JoJo, Christ wasnt black, He was olive skinned. An in between colour to satisfy most.

  129. JoJo says:

    Plainsong- You did realise I was joking, didn’t you….?

  130. Fat Sam says:

    Is Blackegg the new Blackadder? From a supporting role in the Channel 4 News jokefest to a starring role in the J&M sitcom (Two and a Half Holy Men), it (she? he?) has come a long way in a short time. Congratulations to the inspired creators, all of them, there and here.

  131. JohnM says:

    @plainsong
    Forgive me if I press you on this point, but do you or do you not reciprocate with Muslims concerning prophets? Apparently they accept yours – do you accept theirs?

  132. hotrats says:

    plainsong:
    I wish they would go a study the holy books handed down to us from the early church fathers.

    The problem is that the more you study them, the more obvious it is that they were written by deluded barbarians whose concepts of god, truth and morality were as brutal, self-serving and irrational as they were themselves.

    Argument over which prophet was last (or most ‘true’, or whatever) is as meaningless as it is pathetic. A prophet is by definiton a messenger of god, in other words, a liar or a lunatic (or both) and to give one creedence is to share in his delusion or deceit.

    To my mind, this is the true danger of religious belief; whether or not one believes in god is, in itself, a trivial, irrelevant and generally harmless issue. What makes it so toxic is that it comes bundled with a demand for uncritical acceptance of the pronouncements of a self-perpetuating priesthood, and contradictory and ignorant scripture – its actual contribution to our civilization and culture no more than an anecdotal record of the predictably poor mental health of Bronze Age goat-fuckers.

  133. plainsong says:

    John M. As a Christian there can be no compromise with Islam. We believe in the same Almighty God, and therefore we have a common identity, along with Judaism. I have said before that John-the- Baptist was the last prophet. What more do yoyu want me to say? That Mohammed existed I have no doubt. But what a misguided man to persue his path after the road that St Paul and so many others went down before him.
    I hate religious intologerance, and I think that J and Mo go a long way to break down barriers. I deplore those who seek to make naughtyness and mischief out of this cartoon.
    Christians and Muslims can, and do make good in the world. But Satan is out there too, working his way into peoples lives, because they have no knowledge or fear of the Divine.

  134. Mary2 says:

    Plainsong, “Christians and Muslims can, and do make good in the world. But Satan is out there too, working his way into peoples lives, because they have no knowledge or fear of the Divine”

    Are you seriously implying that people who are not Christian or Muslim are less likely to ‘make good in the world’?

    All those evil buddhists killing apostates? All those New Age vegetarians who won’t even kill a fly (literally)? All those Atheists trying to legislate to force whole countries to follow the dictates of their particular god? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

  135. plainsong says:

    hot rats, in referring to “Bronze age goatfuckers” I think you sommed up yourself very well. Congratulations!

  136. DevonDreaming says:

    Plainsong: I have heard your plaintive, childish, weak-minded, tiny-minded, small-souled, exculsivistic, patronising, nasty, hate-filled and evil song before.
    It is the song of the KooKooKluckers and the Nazis. It is the song of men who can not talk to intelligent, wise women.
    It is bigotry in action, armed and afire and burning all before it.
    Your song is the song of Saloth Sar and the burning cross. It is the hymn of women and children hanging from trees. It is the stench of burning flesh and the echo of screams.
    You are a creature of the Armies of Darkness. You are the incarnation of the stupid “satanic” influences you decry. You give life to the Great Satan.
    In short, old son, you are a vile, evil, intolerant horror.
    You are identical to those who fly planes into buildings and send little girls out into crowds of innocents with bombs strapped to their chests.
    I can see you in a crowd dancing, singing, eating chips and holding up your little daughter to get a better view as unbelievers bleed and burn.
    No offence, mate, but we can not be friends until you grow up and lose some of your hatred.
    Like JtBap, our real J-t-Bap not your fairy-tale who never existed, I pity you and your tiny life.
    Such waste is so sad.

    Try this for a laugh: if you don’t believe Jack Vernon was the Greatest Prophet of Karaku and Signar the Blue was the Last Prophet of Thor, Baldur and Frig, why would you accept that some bloke who was fond of dunking babies would hold any truth?
    You belittle four thousand million gods. Why not mock and belittle one more and become free?

  137. plainsong says:

    Mary 2 dear, try and get a grip. I never said that those who are not monotheist are evil. Try not to be so defensive. I find a pork chop calms me down no end. Give it a try!

  138. DevonDreaming says:

    Plainsong : try this little mental exercise: imagine you DO believe in Klono, the spaceman’s god in “The Lensmen” series. Imagine this is your entire life, that you bow to Klono, venerate Klono, use Klono to curse and swear by and would sacrifice your spouse and children for his pleasure.
    Imagine that Klono is your church, your very life, everything you are and desire and believe.

    Then imagine a prophet of Ghantu comes along and convinces you Klono is rubbish, a delusion, something made up by an SF writer just to make his stories and characters more interesting. You then convert to the Holy Writ of Ghantu. Ghantu is the true, one god of all gods of all gods.
    Ghantu becomes your life, your lord, your saviour, your very soul.

    Then try to imagine I come along and teach you the Way of Life Eternal. The Way of Truth Conditional. The Method of Knowing Objectively but Never for Certain. I show you Ghantu is no more a truth than Klono was. I show you the wide, beautiful, magical and miraculous cosmos brought to us by Science. A life without gods and faiths and killings in their names.
    I show you a way to make your children immortal, to spread the Word of Man to the skies of a million worlds. I show you the Dream Of Stars.
    Imagine, just for a moment, I succeed in teaching you how small and petty and cramped and limited a death cult is and how liberating and vast the truth can be and you accept it.
    Imagine, for a second you have no gods and you are happy.
    Imagine you work to spread your seed across the cosmos, to make real the Human Galaxies.
    Imagine you see Earth as a cradle of a mighty unending sea of cultures not as a grave dedicated only to empty promises.
    Now try, just for a second, comparing the writers of your books to the writer of “The Lensman” saga and the creator of Ghantu.
    Can you see the similarities?
    Can you see how Jaweh, Jehovah, Ally and Ghantu are all so very much the same? Can you see how we would see them all as identical?

    There is no difference between your books and those of the “Star Wars”, “Star Trek”, “Oz”, “Lensman” or “Narnia” universes. They all have gods and godlike super-beings. They all have evil for no good reason. They all were written by humans, though some are so formulaic they may well have been created by computer programs.
    Can you wrap your bigoted, intolerant and evil little mind around the idea that if four thousand million *other* gods and the prophets are lies then yours might be, too?
    Can you at least try? To drop the hatred and the divisiveness and to join the Dream?
    I guarantee it is a lot warmer and more fun on the godless side.
    And we control the lightnings.

  139. DevonDreaming says:

    Plainsong, 4/2/14 at 2327: “John M. As a Christian there can be no compromise with Islam. We believe in the same Almighty God, and therefore we have a common identity, along with Judaism. I have said before that John-the- Baptist was the last prophet. What more do yoyu want me to say? That Mohammed existed I have no doubt. But what a misguided man to persue his path after the road that St Paul and so many others went down before him.
    I hate religious intologerance, … ”

    Have you a sense of humour? You can never compromise with the Musselmen but you all worship the same sky-fairy and you hate religious intolerance.
    That is almost as funny as your latest Papa in Rome trying not to alienate the straight gay-bashers while also trying to sound accepting and enlightened.
    I wonder if you proof-read what you write? Or even read it?
    Or was it intentional self-mockery?

    “I have no doubt that loads of people called Joshua existed but what misguided men they all were …”

    “I have no doubt that Sun Myung Moon existed and that he was the True, Last Great Prophet Of The One True Faith.”

    See anything you recognise in those two quotes?

  140. Plainsong, if irony were poisonous you would be a very sick puppy by now.

  141. mary2 says:

    Plainsong, forgive the hyperbole but you still haven’t answered my question. I was quoting you back at you and asking you to clarify: you clearly state that Satan exists and is ready to work through those who don’t believe in your god. The inference drawn from this statement is that you believe that unbelievers are more likely to do Satan’s work (i.e. Evil) than are believers. Is this what you really believe (contrary to all evidence and common sense, I might add)?

    I find a pork chop increases your likelihood of heart disease, but, different strokes . . . (if you’ll pardon the pun)

  142. omg says:

    Did we have a record here: 142 comments for one cartoon. I think we can celebrate…

  143. omg says:

    I think we have a record here, 142 comment for one cartoon. We can celebrate…

    I hope it will not be duplicate, my last few comment didn’t show up.

  144. hotrats says:

    plainsong:
    hot rats, in referring to “Bronze age goatfuckers” I think you sommed up yourself very well. Congratulations!

    4 elementary mistakes in one sentence. And pretty rich your labeling me ‘Bronze Age’ – you’re the one who claims that ‘Satan is out there’. I’ll have you know I’m a thoroughly post-modern goat-fucker.

  145. Hotrats, I don’t fuck goats but my daaaaaaad did.

  146. DevonDreaming says:

    I’ve been thumbing through the images on C&B’s favourite image storing website and I found this one: http://imgur.com/r/all/qcnxI51
    I would just like to say to every single imam, mullah, priest, padre, pope and prophet of all the gods : let us see you do anything this good.
    No?
    Thought not.

  147. Acolyte+of+Sagan says:

    Darwin / hotrats, I feel so much better now about what I used to do with my nanny :-)

  148. fenchurch says:

    WalterW — whups, here I am: glad to be back.

    As explained by others, there are some East Asian superstitions held by people who will not live on any floor with the number “4” in it (or, accept a new phone number containing said digit).

    I live in a multicultural city and seeing this on the increase (eg. the lift columns of condos in the process of being built) raises my ire.

    If this trend continues, I expect that some day, *every* number will have a too-sacred or “unlucky” connotation by all possible cultures in a given city, so I am just waiting for there to be no numbers at all!

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