If you don’t know that this is about: look here. And then sign here to support Maajid Nawaz.

Oh, and in case you are wondering what the best way to support this comic is, it is to buy a book.

Discussion (125)¬

  1. HaggisForBrains says:


  2. Stuart Burns says:

    signed also
    this comic is astute and very funny – and tragically sad too

  3. WalterWalcarpit says:

    This is important because we are at a time when great mischief and enormous harm is noisily, overtly and in a manner bullingly being visited on all of humanity by a small minority emboldened by a wholly misplaced political correctness. Liberals and democrats and humanists alike must stand together and say “No Pasaran!” For that is the only way to stop fascism.
    And besides, no one has a right to not be offended. How absurd the bottom of that slippery slope would look!

    With that I signed.

  4. NSPike says:

    This whole thing has got me wondering, with this whole debacle recently I wonder if Author will find a significant increase in views to the comic? You know what they say about no bad publicity…

    I for one truly hope that it is the case that the readership goes up – I don’t know the figures but I do think this is a woefully underrated and under-viewed comic, especially when you see the visitor figures to sites like theoatmeal (another comic I personally adore). For every cloud eh?

  5. Caliban27 says:

    signed also
    The comparisons are telling. What a pity that so much ideological stupidity and intolerance is tolerated in this so globalised, yet so parochial world.

  6. WalterWalcarpit says:

    Spoing! Another great strip, Author. Right on target.

  7. mary2 says:

    Sharp as a rapier, Author.

  8. Abhijeet says:

    Recursive algorithm? A comic about itself?

  9. Ant Allan says:


  10. WalterWalcarpit says:

    “Recursive algorithm?” Is that what it is? I couldn’t quite put my fingers on it myself. A ‘tromp d’mot’ perhaps? Certainly some kind of ironic deconstruction happening here, and not for the first time, methinks.

  11. JohnM says:

    What is worrying is the number of signatures on the counter petition – the one that sparked this one

  12. Jash Jacob says:

    Really awesome. If only people cared more for things that mattered

  13. Cedar says:

    I’d like to ask everyone to please consider not only signing the petition to Nick Clegg re Maajid Nawaz, but circulating it to friends even if usually, you’d consider that an imposition. It seems to me so important that we support a Muslim who is willing to publicly voice a sensible view – even if you’re a believer, it should seem self-evident that the Creator of All isn’t going to be affected by a cartoon. Non-Muslims would be perceived as tactless, oppressive, racist etc if they told Muslims to just quit the hysteria & get a grip, but if a Muslim does it, it can be defined as ijtihad, legitimate debate. This is also a turning point for the LibDems – either they support Nawaz, or they allow themselves to be frightened by Shafiq. Let’s help them makemthenright choice – as my fellow-contributor noted, the mob is already howling in its thousands.

  14. Nassar+Ben+Houdja says:

    A Muslim not taking offence?
    To any real or imagined pretence?
    That would indicate,
    An apostate to beat and hate.
    Only violence, to Islam makes sense.

  15. botanist says:


  16. botanist says:

    signed with my correct logo – I hope!

  17. ScepticSarah says:

    Hurray, finally up to date after reading through all the archives (plus comments and links). Love this week’s offering- and petition signed.

  18. NSPike says:

    Nassar you have really moved up a gear in your contributions the last two months or so, I know others have said it but I think it needs repeating – I liked that one.

  19. And the disproportionate uproar (which is putting it politely) just underlines the point that Maajid was making. What a petty self-obsessed god it must be to shrug off mass murders every day but go apeshit over a satirical cartoon.

  20. Emma+Peel says:

    Dear Ophelia, you are a woman after my own heart. Couldn’t have said it better.

  21. ron says:

    so what you’re saying is that jesus is an apple fan boy. Or am I reading to much into this?

  22. botanist says:

    It’s just keeping it in the family ron, his many greats grandma Eve liked apples 🙂

  23. HaggisForBrains says:

    ron – I’m sure it’s a reference to original sin – it even has a bite taken out of it.
    Nasser – nice one!
    Ant Allan – good to see you here, I’m sure your wit will be appreciated.

  24. steeve says:

    Signed! Sorry, J&M world, I don’t have any answers to these questions, but I hope some of you will have a go: Are we just saying the equivalent of ‘Calm down, dear’? Is anyone really so narrow minded that a cartoon becomes this important? And if they are, how do they get through the day without exploding in rage? Are they offended by the fact that I think one thing and they think another?

  25. JohnM says:

    Those of you who signed the petition will have seen Chris Moose’s email to signers. What you won’t have seen is this rabble-rousing tirade that is sent out to those who sign the counter petition:

    “Asalaam wa alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu,

    (May the peace, mercy and blessings of God almighty be upon you all)

    May all those that have taken their precious time to sign this petition to express how insulted we are by the actions of Maajid Nawaz be abundantly blessed.

    In less than 24 hours we have hit over 3,000 signatures, this is commendable but unfortunately it is not enough. Surely we can do better to defend the Honour of the last of the messengers, the best of the messengers and the leader of the messengers, Muhammed pbuh.

    Especially so given that there is now a counter-petition by Maajid Nawaz supporters’ (link at the bottom of the page) and in a few hours has already gained over 800 signatures. If we do not continue to spread this petition, inviting our contacts and getting those signatures the supporters of Maajid Nawaz will overtake us. He will be allowed to maintain his position. He and his supporters will claim a victory. Their mockery of the Prophets Jesus, Muhammed (pbut) and perhaps others as well as Islam itself will become bolder, more frequent and more accepted. The situation itself will become more unbearable for Muslims. We must act now if we want to prevent this. It is a step by step process. Today it is mockery of the Prophet and tomorrow it is…?

    Muslims number 2.7million in the UK. The signatures we need are all around us. They are in our families, in our masjids, our schools, colleges, universities and our businesses. We have the numbers, and if we add up all those numbers that is what is going to make the difference. The difference between allowing this man to unashamedly insult Muslims, Islam and the Prophet and sending a strong message to him and his supporters that we will never readily accept, great or small, any mockery of the Prophet or Islam.

    Narated By Anas : The Prophet said “None of you will have [perfect] faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind.” -Reported in Bukhari

    To what extent would we speak out against an individual if he insulted our family in this way?

    Lets enhance the good deed we have done by encouraging more of those around us to do the same.

    As Allah swt says in the Quran: “And from among you there should be a party who invite to good and enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong, and these it is that shall be successful.” -[3:104]

    “Whoever amongst you sees anything objectionable, let him change it with his hand, if he is not able, then with his tongue, and if he is not even able to do so, then with his heart, and the latter is the weakest form of faith.” -Reported in Muslim

    Lets change this objectionable action by forbidding the disrespectful actions of Maajid Nawaaz and enjoining the good by encouraging those around us to do the same and in the process remove this vile individual from his position.

    JazakAllah Khayr”

    This individual is obviously being pretty careful not to invoke hate-speech accusations, though his use of “vile individual” indicates he would very much like to do so. No doubt the death threats will appear in due course, once they see they have whipped up a mob frenzy against Maajid.

  26. IanB says:


    I am always amazed that the supposed omniscient and omnipotent creator of the universe needs a bunch of ill educated yobs to protects his good name.

  27. John-the-bap says:

    Regarding JohnM’s message on January 22, 2014 at 8:53 p.m.

    You quoted the anti-cartoon loonie as saying “of the last of the messengers, the best of the messengers and the leader of the messengers”. I suppose he means either The Holiest Jim Jones or The Sacred Sun Myung Moon both Of Blessed Memory, PBUT?
    It’s for damned sure that fat rapist paedophile was none of the latest, greatest or leader of the prophets, as many other C&B folk have noted.
    Personally, I think Mr. Smith was a far better prophet. He was certainly far more peaceable and he didn’t demand his women-folk get stoned to death for being raped.
    Mr. Jones was a little off but the Holy Moon at least got people married, not mutilated or stoned. He is a far greater Last Holy Messenger Messiah and Prophet.
    Isn’t it about time we called them on that “last prophet” lie? False advertising and fraud for a start.

    Author, and all : petition NOT signed. I have no way of judging whether the politician is doing a self-serving, cynical, calculating and hypocritical political manoeuvre or he is actually acting on conscience. I hate and detest the first of those, greedy bastard political hacks who jump on bandwagons when they are on the ascendency. Being of a basically untrusting nature, I don’t support any politician in anything.
    Nor do I wish my name on anything that can be used against me in later pogroms when the Islamists win.
    As they must.

  28. JohnM says:

    @ John-the-bap

    But the NSA now know who you are, unless you posted here using TOR, and when muslims eventually outbreed, and thus outvote us, the psychotic Islamists will have access to all the NSA servers to garner names for their pogrom. And to those who say ordinary, decent Muslims would never allow such a thing, never forget that ordinary, decent German people were the majority in 1930s, as they always were and have been since.

  29. botanist says:

    Be careful, John-the bap:

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out – Because I was not a Socialist.
    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out – Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out – Because I was not a Jew.
    Then they came for me -and there was no one left to speak for me.

    Attributed to pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

  30. WalterWalcarpit says:

    Clearly I don’t agree with J the B not signing – and for both reasons pointed out above – but there was an interesting nugget earlier in his post.

    Isn’t the fact that Mo clearly was not the last prophet, as evidenced by the many that have come after him, a great opening for a debate? Or perhaps a cartoon 😉 ?

    This is a ‘puff of logic’ opportunity: notwithstanding that Mo was not original to state that he was the one true prophet, he upped the ante by declaring himself the final one. As history has proved him wrong on that point can a believer really put on a straight face to say “They don’t count because they were charlatans followed only by gullible fools whereas my chosen prophet is genuine because I am a critical thinker.”

  31. John-the-bap says:

    JohnM: the Muslims won’t get the NSA data because the nice, good, trustworthy Mr. Obama is working to make them nice guys whom we can trust. And we all really, really believe him, don’t we?
    Anyway, I’ve got something safer than TOR. I’ve got a Mac. [A little humour there.]

    Botanist: I’m not a member of any team, group, cult, national or religious creed or anything else, so I’ll either be the first against the wall or the last. I’m betting on my being the last because there’s a shipload of evil heretic satanic blaspheming dudes who are hated by the eventual winners a lot more than I am. Chances are they will kill each other in city-sized lots well before they work their way down to noisy little gnats like me. With luck I’ll outlive the scunners. I outlived Mr. Jones’s lot, I reckon I can do the same for a whiny, temporary, petty, localised little cult like Islam. Even if they do win before they die out.

    WalterWalcarpit : Jim Jones said he was the greatest, last and best. Josh from Bethlehem said it, too. Lucifer was another last greatest leader of the prophets. And many of the doomsday, apocalyptic groups insist the John version of Josh is inaccurate and the earlier Old Testamenty MML version is closer to the real deal. In USAlia more than elsewhere there are bunches of loons whose only mission in life is to suffer horribly then die in glory. I never understood them.I’d rather have a mug of hot chocolate and watch a video but these guys are serious, apparently, about not wanting a future on this world. [And yet they still don’t offer me their worldly goods. That’s unfair of them.]
    They rather have the flavour of Fundy Islamists. Or fanatical Hitlerites.
    The fact that the entire religion of Islam is based on the provable lie and fraudulent claim that their book and their prophet is best and last and all that nice stuff should in law prevent them from being seen as a religion. It’s like a claim that supporting Fulham is a religion and so the entire Fulham F. C. enterprise should be tax-free. Or watching a soap opera is a religion so ITV should never pay taxes. Or eating chocolate is a religion so Cadbury’s should never be taxed. [ http://www.hotelchocolat.com/uk is most seriously a near religious experience. The minty bar is lovely and I’d rather have one of them on a Sabbath than be stoned to death.]
    Islam is fraudulently defaulting on taxes. Among other crimes. And this can be proven in a court of law using Islam’s own books.
    Islam is not a religion. It is a corrupt enterprise.
    And I am really in sheep dit.

  32. wanabee says:

    “Some imams are still preaching death for apostasy and homosexuality in British mosques.”

    There’s apostasy and homosexuality in British mosques?

    Maybe should be: “Some imams in British mosques are still preaching death for apostasy and homosexuality.”

    Just a suggestion.

  33. RichardB says:

    Jesus and Mo IS offensive: that’s part of its raison d’etre. We are invited to “ridicule the sincerely held beliefs of millions”. If you are a devout Christian, or Muslim, and you aren’t offended, you haven’t got it. One strip got even under my skin and I don’t offend easily. (I’m a practising Christian, although increasingly not a believing one, and there’s a big difference) It is also very clever and thoroughly researched, which is why it’s dangerous and I sometimes fear for its creator’s anonymity.

    In a democracy, the right to offend is important, although it cannot be absolute and needs to be exercised responsibly: but J&M’s creator fights fair, never takes a cheap shot, never lapses into obscenity. If he wanted to rant or excite religious hatred, he wouldn’t use such a disciplined and restricted form as the cartoon strip.

    People deserve respect because they’re people, but beliefs have to earn respect, and they do that by demonstrating their worth, that they aren’t, in some way or other, bollocks. The vital role of J&M and other sceptical enterprises is to challenge religious believers to prove that their assertions are coherent, rational and consistent. What better way to test the strength of an idea than to ridicule it (independently of the person holding it). If it can’t handle mockery, it was never worth much in the first place.

  34. Acolyte+of+Sagan says:

    John-the-bap said

    ….Author, and all : petition NOT signed. I have no way of judging whether the politician is doing a self-serving, cynical, calculating and hypocritical political manoeuvre or he is actually acting on conscience.

    Entirely your own choice, of course, and as a rule of thumb I pretty much share your opinion of politicians. In this instance however I see no reason to doubt Mr. Nawaz’s motives.
    As a practicing Muslim he knows better than most exactly what a risk he is taking here and it would be an extraordinary politician that knowingly and intentionally puts his/her life in very real danger for the sake of a few votes. Yes, they’ll travel to war zones to boost their ratings, but you can rest assured they never get close enough to the action to even hear gunshots: some might even invade other countries in order to boost flagging support from among the great unwashed – not to mention their own bank balances – but they won’t be leading the troops in person. The hyper-cynical might even go on to become a ‘peace envoy’ to the area he’d recently decimated by the fore-mentioned invasion.
    What they most assuredly do not do is to genuinely put their lives on the line, and certainly not unless they are surrounded by an impenetrable ring of steel at all times.

    But even if – and it’s a very tiny ‘if’ – Mr. Nawaz really is just doing it for the votes, so what? It’s perfectly possible to support the sentiment without approving of the motives behind it, so if it makes you feel better about adding your name to the petition then think of it as defending free expression rather than defending a politician.

  35. Acolyte+of+Sagan says:

    Thanks, Chiefy, I love it. 🙂

  36. James Rowland says:

    Signed. My “Reason for signing” text:

    “Please notice that Mr. Nawaz’s message was that Muslims (such as himself) can be tolerant of dissent and irreverence; it is THIS message that others wish to suppress.

    The principles of free expression are easy enough: DIRECT incitement of harm is the only sufficient cause to censor expression. Offence is NOT sufficient, because tolerance only works when EVERYONE must develop it.

    It is easy to profess offence. When this play can ruin others, it is invariably used to silence dissent and coerce others into conformity. For tolerance and fairness to endure in our diverse society, there can be NO right to be spared offence.

    There can be no loopholes, either. Expression that gainsays religious ideology must have the same status as expression counter to any other ideology.”

  37. tfkreference says:

    Signed. As AoS writes, he is clearly taking a principled stand. It hasn’t been that long since a politician of similar faith was gunned down by his own bodyguard for taking a stand.

  38. Mord_Sith says:

    As much as I am loathe to put my real information on a website, especially one I have only just recently come across (a touch hyper-paranoid), I have signed the petition. Despite intentions, and regardless of my personal alignment (or lack thereof) the world vision of Islam has gone from oddity / exotic to threatening over the past decade, and allowing it to spiral further out of control will only make things worse.

    For the sake of co-existence Islam needs to right it’s own ship and drag the extremists (potentially kicking and screaming) out of the Crusades and into the modern era or they will soon find that the faith will not be welcome (whether justified or not is irrelevant, people who are afraid do strange things, just look at the development of Religion!)

    My only fear is that my contribution to the petition will be all but worthless as I am not a Brit (though I do inadvertently pay homage to the queen.) But I will still stand and be (digitally) counted if only to defend raw equality.

  39. JohnM says:

    “People deserve respect because they’re people, but beliefs have to earn respect, …”

    Which is exactly why revealed religion is so horrendous. It demands respect, it legislates respect where it can, yet none of its multiple varieties show a solitary morsel of respect for people. Often it is just the opposite.

  40. smee says:

    Speaking of last prophets What about David Icke ! All he’s ever done is wear a lot of purple, think that the royal family are giant lizards, and give us all a good laugh.

    Just like the Archbishop of Canterbury, but without the lizards.

  41. Necessary+Evil says:

    Am I allowed to be a laugist – a believer in the right to laugh at something I find funny? As a laughist, I would be deeply offended if anyone tried to take away my jokes and other things that make me laugh. I would believe that genuine laughter is a gift from evolution that we humans should treasure and people’s right to laugh is hallowed.

    Our Author, Which art in cyber-space,
    Hallowed be thy jokes;
    Thy jokedom come;
    Thy fun be done,
    In Pakistan as in America.
    Give us this week our weekly cartoon strip
    And forgive those who don’t laugh,
    As we forgive those who don’t laugh at our own jokes
    And lead us not into being over-seriousness
    But deliver us from narrow-mindedness.
    For thine is the web page,
    The html and the jpegs.
    For ever and ever

    Based on the 1662 Anglican version. Apologies if you are offended that I didn’t base my parody on your own preferred version.

  42. John-the-bap says:

    Dear Acolyte, it’s not my fight. I don’t care which religion wins. I don’t care whether the ungodly rule the world and drag us back into the pre-stone ages. It will make no difference to me. I’m not involved.
    Let them eat the world. I’m not using much of it.

  43. JohnM says:

    @ J-t-b

    Guess you’re not a parent or grandparent then. Those are conditions that usually instil rather different world views into a person.

  44. JohnM says:


    How’s your Arabic? Care to try parodying a Hadith or two?

  45. LindaR says:

    Signed, and circulated to my Facebook friends, at least one of whom I can rely on to do the same. And his ‘friends’ number in the 100s 🙂

  46. two cents' worth says:

    Happy birthday, AOS! Here’s a little something I hope you’ll enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZZffuyUIKQ

  47. John-the-bap says:

    JohnM : right first time, friend. Apre?s moi, la de?luge. Meanwhile, we got fun to have. Anyway, any spawn of mine would be able to carve out her own place on the planet with her first breath.
    It’s rather nice being free and having no hostages to fortune.

  48. John-the-bap says:

    Re J-t-b’s latest comment: those acutes, graves and whatevers looked fine on *my* screen.
    Anyway, if Mr. Nawaz wants some signatures for his petition I’m fairly sure he could hire a company to fake them for him. As an M.P. he certainly is paid enough to be able to and he could possibly put that down as a legitimate official expense. More so than a 105″ TV, toilet roll, porn videos or a duck-pond. If he wanted to look a bit more honest, he could even hire little girls to wander around cities collecting signatures for him, even Greenpeace manages that.
    Indeed, it’s rather surprising he hasn’t already got more signatures than Facetwit has “customers”. Maybe he’s new and hasn’t been taught all the tricks by the massive peculators in Parliament?

  49. John-the-bap says:

    JohnM : you do know, I assume, that one can most excellently parody the hadiths (and other gubbins like bible verses) in the One True Tongue Of the Truest Gods, English?
    And that the K’ran was originally written in The One True Language Of All The Wisest Gods, English, but that the foreign-language version slipped into print first and got massively distributed before anyone in head office noticed?
    That is why it keeps telling readers to only read it in The Original Tongue. Because everyone and his sister’s newt can speak English and it is the only Real Language.
    I thought everyone knew this?

    smee, my friend, Mr. Icky is not a prophet. Even he does not consider himself a prophet. He is The Truth, The Way and The Light.[Sort of like me but I’m smarter, brighter, better educated, wiser and *right*] Being such, he does not count in a list of prophets who are better, faster, cleaner, more just, more leaderly, have more sparkly cleaning powers and are more True than that ancient child-raping fat guy. The lovely and Blessed David, PBUHToes, is a Giver Of The Word From The Holy Zeta Reticulans. They are much more true and wise than Mo’s tiny, local little godlet.
    They’ve got spaceships.
    No, friend, the greatest prophets since Josh Carpenter are the Sacred Jo Smith, the Holiest Jimmy Jones and the Great and Powerful Moon, Knight of the Sky and Light of the Wise. Mo doesn’t get a look in because he’s a fraud who relies on false advertising and plagiarism for his material.
    The others met Angels so they must be later and better. So, logically, Mo lies. A lot.

  50. two cents' worth says:

    Belatedly, in honor of Martin Luther King, Jr. Day (observed in the US on Monday of this week–Jan. 20th), here is a quotation of his that may appeal to the Cock & Bull crowd: “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than
    sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

    I hope that it is conscientious stupidity that prompted many of those who signed the petition to complain that Mr. Nawaz insulted them by exercizing his freedom of speech and freedom of religion–in a country where those freedoms are supposedly honored–by making a statement in a civil tone to convey his personal opinion about Jesus & Mo. Like the Author, we all need to continue to work to educate people to help prevent them from being afflicted by conscientious stupidity. We can also try to help those already afflicted by it to see the light of reason, but if we can’t, we can hope that, over time, their numbers may be fewer. (A child once asked me why it took over 100 years after slavery was abolished in the US before the country acknowledged the civil rights of people of color. I said that it was because that’s how much time it took for most of the people who were alive when slavery was legal to die, and that the people who have come after them have been taught that human beings are human beings, no matter what they look like. I hope that we won’t have to wait 100 years for religious extremism to die down.)

    Curious about MLK? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.

  51. two cents' worth says:

    In my posting with the MLK quotation, I should have written, “…but if we can’t get them to see the light, we can hope…” The italicized part is the part I accidentally omitted.

    Sorry if I caused anyone any confusion or irritation! Maybe if I joined the Inebriati (The Knights Tippler), my usual mid-afternoon slump would not reduce my ability to write clear prose–but, based on my experience, after almost two drinks I would probably be sleeping rather than writing 😉 .

    For those who haven’t read the comments on last week’s J&M cartoon, JoJo posted a link to a video about the Inebriati ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usDuyoec6Lc ). Thanks for sharing, JoJo!

  52. Dan says:

    The kids might call it Satire-ception.

  53. Am I missing something here. This guy is getting death threats for saying he is NOT offended. That seems very strange indeed. Signed of course. I haven’t time right now to read all the comments, but no doubt you are all in your usual fine and eloquent form. I’ll get back to the thread and catch up soon.

  54. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    No, you’re not missing anything, Darwin. Maajid Nawez, a Liberal Democrat politician, prospective Member of Parliament, and practicing Muslim, stated on BBC1’s The Big Questions that he did not find the image of Mo on the’Hey!. How ya doin?‘ t-shirt offensive. He also made the same rational statement on Facebook and on Twitter, complete with a posting of the image in question.
    So far, so sane.
    It appears he forgot that under Islamic rules he is not allowed to decide for himself what he may or may not find offensive, but rather he must be offended by whatever the mad mullahs – and in this instance at least one other Lib-Dem politician of the same faith as Nawez – decide he must be offended by (causes of insult are totally arbitrary and liable to change according to the whims and fancies of the ‘leaders’ of the faith), and so obviously he has to die as soon and as painfully as inhumanly possible.

    two cent’s worth, thank you for the present 🙂 Who would have thought that sand plus heat could equal such beauty?
    Speaking of which, many moons ago on a visit to Whitby (a beautiful old fishing town on the North Yorkshire coast) I commissioned a local glass-blower to make a dozen miniature glass roses as a present for Mrs. o’Sagan, and they still occupy pride of place on her dressing table all these years later.

  55. plaineng says:

    Author, I am oddly reminded of many years ago when my father, after hearing the Beatles singing ‘Help’, referred to their music as the sound of garbage-can lids being banged together. (In those days all trash bins were metal, or perhaps early Metal might be a better way to say it, a nod to dad.) As a youngster, I found my dad’s appraisal quite mad but he was a Baptist pulpit preacher and not to be challenged. In those days they were apt to burn Satan’s 45’s and LP records, as a favor for Jesus. I have seen some things change over the years, I think, but am stuck in the imagery. How have we changed? We continue to ignore the excessive and destructive use of fire (foreign wars and drone ritual burning, and at home, the same old fire and brimstone sermons come down from the pulpits.
    Anyway, Author, I wanted to share that “I do appreciate you being around… you help me get my feet back on the ground”…. best wishes, another reader/ signer…

  56. John-the-bap says:

    Folks, here is someone who deserves help, aid and succour. We should send a massive force of policemen into that nest of demented savages and take that poor guy away from that failed nation.
    Oh, and I did mention that the liar, Mo-the-peadophile, wasn’t the last prophet, didn’t I? This proves it.
    Islam is a corrupt enterprise run by fraudsters.
    They are so afraid of being caught out that they are willing to execute even harmless lunatics to protect their stupidity, cupidity and savage corruption. Islam is *sick*.
    And then then there is this. Some one, some civilised nation with real laws and a sense of humanity and justice, needs to go in and conquer those fake countries.
    I wonder whether something like that could be done by a land as small and weak as England? Anyone know whether something like that has ever been done in all of History?
    Maybe we could even take over the rational governance of other places, like Somalia, and failed states like France and call it something cool like “Empire”? that has a nice, futuristic feel to it.
    We could have them build our starship fleet for us. They are nearer the Equator which makes for easier launches.
    It all seems so logical …
    I wonder if this is how Mr. Ashgar thinks?

  57. John-the-bap says:

    Re, the latest from JtB: CLOSE THE HREF. How many times have I told you?
    Sorry, folks.

  58. sneederbee says:

    the LibDems need to go rent a spine somewhere.

    Petition Signed!

  59. mary2 says:

    AOS, I missed your birthday! Hope it was a wonderful day and that your house is now full of glass viruses.

  60. JohnM says:

    No worries. Made following your link a real doddle 🙂

  61. UncoBob says:

    The cartoon didn’t ring true for me. I guess Mo would be upset at his followers killing each other, but as I understand it, when he got to be powerful, he was something of a fan of direct and violent action. Imams calling for death for apostates and followers training to be mad bombers to spread his religion of peace would be right up his alley.

    The point of the toon is right on the money, though.

  62. peter gentle says:


  63. JohnM says:

    As the petitions stand at present, loonies have four times as many votes as realists. Such apathy is a problem for any tolerant society, as many great people down the ages have already observed..

  64. plaineng says:

    @JohnM, It is indeed apathy sometimes but also a more hearty focus on living. Delusionary trolls may well spend hours per day firing up more delusion and signatures for their mad petitions while healthier folk are busy with wining and dining, with Art and Culture pursuits, with ‘real’ life, not serving gawds and demons… For instance, while some plot to rid the world of a politician who seems to be a more tolerant believer, able to chuckle a bit and talk things over, I have been spending time studying Justin Beiber’s hair. How does he spend a night in jail and come out with it still standing firm and hard? Is it a faith? Is it some Canadian bear grease or igloo glue? These are matters of importance to me and I might easily have totally missed the latest Jesus and Mo in the bargain, at least for several days, so intent have I been to uncover Bieber’s hairier truths. I truly care about my world and do not have time every every day to chase causes and speak with people who are discussing jihad and last days… (BTW, any ideas about Bieber’s locks?)

  65. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    I have been spending time studying Justin Beiber’s hair. How does he spend a night in jail and come out with it still standing firm and hard? Is it a faith? Is it some Canadian bear grease or igloo glue?……
    (BTW, any ideas about Bieber’s locks?)

    Have you seen There’s Something About Mary?

  66. plaineng says:

    “Have you seen There’s Something About Mary?”
    @Acolyte of Sagan, No but the rottentomatoes site has a quote about hair gel….? It is one of those movies that gets a better critics response than audience one…. will check it out. Just watched Full Metal Jacket again so a Mary might be just the ticket now…

  67. John-the-Bap says:

    re JohnM at 24/1156: well, that was the intention. Really, honestly it was.

    I was thinking of going to https://twitter.com/mshafiquk/ , creating a faked-up Twitface account and offering this: “You do know, sir, that Islam is based on a mistake? That Mo was not the last prophet? Joe Smith, Sun Myung Moon and Jim Jones. ” as my very first ever twatter.
    Then I had visions of nut-cases in dresses with hats on waving burning flags and even more burning bits of me and I decided I was far too much of a fucking coward to do something so stupidly suicidal.
    It’s not that I value my life so very highly, it’s just that I’m terrified of being torn apart and being set light to. I rather suspect it may hurt and I’m very familiar with pain. I dislike it a little.
    Isn’t it a wonderful fucking world when I’m too afraid of a lunatic mob to even post a mild comment on Twitface?
    Doesn’t it make you proud to be in England?
    Proud to be a free man.
    Proud of our long tradition of free speech.
    I’m off to get rat-arsed and eat some venison burgers.

  68. hotrats says:

    I so hope Bieber’s protein rinse isn’t the notorious ‘gel’ from ‘Something like Mary’ – I doubt he could generate any great quantity himself, so he would need a rather more virile regular donor in his stylistic entourage – no, it just doesn’t bear thinking about.

  69. plainsong says:

    As a Christian I am not offended by J and M. We all need to be able to laugh at ourselves. BUT I am getting tired and frankly worried that there are elements of our society who feel that they are above the law, that their faith sets them apart. Fundamentalism is so dangerous, wherever it comes from. No surprise that George Galloway MP has lent his name! Need one say more.

  70. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    Maybe not from among his entourage in this instance, hotrats. He’s a very pretty little chap who’d just spent all night in the slammer, so perhaps his arrest led to him having a seminal moment.
    And that really doesn’t bear thinking about.

  71. John-the-bap says:

    re. Jtb at 25/1155: Before anyone brave and courageous and virtuous wanders by and tells me I’m a coward and a fraidy-cat and I should just suck it up, grow a pair and get on with mocking the wankstains I should mention that I have a pair, have used them for their intended purpose, have evidence to prove this and would like to keep them.
    I should also note that the sad human-burning savages aren’t the only possible enemy. Making jocular remarks on Twitface can get the wrath of the cops descending upon you and I’m sure annoying a Musselman counts as “offensive” in a modern English court.
    Even if they do lie about their prophet.

  72. John-the-bap says:

    re AoS at 26/1233 : the scenes we are all trying hard not to see in our minds (hey, try not thinking of an orange unicorn … boffing a Beiber) explain a fashion. That stupid fad of hanging your trousers barely high enough to prevent indecent exposure began with convicts in USAlien jails. They dropped their tight jeans to prevent them from rubbing their very sore creases. American teens copied the “style” without knowing why it was done, only knowing that the real hard guys they wished to emulate and worship wore their trews slung low. UKlander chavs and rebellious yoof copied the fashion without knowing even that little.
    I just thought everyone would like to know how the cultural cliche started. With sore bums after homosexual rape.
    Isn’t that enlightening?
    Were JB’s kecks slung low on his exit videos, did anyone notice?
    Have nice dreams, everyone.

  73. John-the-bap says:

    AoS: knowing what the Yankees call a bum, I was going to make remarks about epiphanys, but I think that’s a little near the bone.

  74. John-the-bap, I’ve heard other stories for the origins of “jailin”. Most credible is that it began as a way of taunting the guards over cavity searches. My prison guard brother says he never heard of that, but heard it was a way of showing their gang colours after the authorities banned head scarfs.
    A reaction to homosexual rape seems unlikely to me. That’s not the part of the anatomy that would get sore.
    One thing for sure, it started in the jails in the Untied States and spread to the rebellious youth of the world.

  75. Mary2 says:

    JTP and DH, I figured it was the obvious result of baggy pants being in fashion and the prison warders removing your belt – or is that version not gruesome enough?

  76. John-the-Bap says:

    re Mary2 at 26/0610: Nah, not horror-story enough. Besides which, your origin story has no moral point, no instructive narrative, no parable, no *mission* statement. Mine has all of those plus tension, emotion, human interaction, love story interest, the hope of redemption and inspiration on the Road To Perdition and the vague possibility of guest-starring sweet, innocent wives, small, wide-eyed children and cute animals. Everything a Summer Holyweird blockbuster needs.
    Anyway, tight jeans don’t need a belt on most folk and nothing needs a belt on some of those 800 Kilo prison gorillas.

    re. DH at 26/0530 : 5:30 in the weird o’clock and you’ve nothing better to do? Are you in some weird timezone like California or something?
    Why would loose clothing taunt the guards? I don’t understand the reasoning behind that. I understand wanting to taunt the screws if you’re a banged-up con because that’s about the most fun you can have, sort of like chimps in a zoo slinging a faex at a tourist, but I don’t see how making it easier to debag yourself helps that aim. I would have thought wearing skintight jeans with two belts, two sets of braces and garters would be more effective.
    Maybe I’m wrong. I really hope never to find out. So far, I’ve avoided jail. That’s one reason why I’m so reluctant to twit sense to a Muslim., I would like to keep up my record as a fine, upstanding subject of the monarchy.
    Is this sub-thread Off-Topic?
    Happy Australia Day! And “G’day, Cobber” to all our upside-down mates.
    Happy Poorna Swaraj [and I remembered to close this one!]
    Sad commemorative toast to the exploding Tianin Whale. Poor beasty.
    And a very Happy Liberation Day to all our Ugandan friends.

  77. mary2 says:

    JTB, you win! 😉

    But, it’s no longer called ‘Australia Day’. For the last few years it has been renamed as ‘Bogan Day’ (UK people, for bogan think chav; in the USA redneck is possibly closest) with an embarrassed cringe at the increase in zenophobic nationalism on public display along with the ‘Aussie’ flags, tshirts and facepaint.

  78. John-the-Bap says:

    Mary2, sorry to correct you but it’s “Xenophobia”[2], with an “eccks”, like in “I don’t watch girls with swords, I’ve got Xenaphobia.”[1]
    And, okay, thanks for the update, mate, and Happy Boganday. [Is that anything to do with deeply red wine?]

    [1] That was a hypothetical construction. I actually *do* like to watch girls waving swords around and politely kicking bottom in a ladylike manner. Though I did prefer the red-haired one, Gabby. She was awfully cute. Sort of like a kitten challenging me to a fight.

    [2] How the fuck can Ozzies be xenophobic? Aren’t they all immigrants, even the original Ancient Caucasians who got there first, by about sixty millennia? That’s news to me. I thought your lot coped with anything but English Royals? [Not a shocker, even the English Royals have a history of disliking English Royals and proving it by lopping off heads.] I think I’m slightly disillusioned.

    Breaking News: I’m in England and it’s raining. Lots.
    I think I’ll hide.

  79. hotrats says:


    Are you really a floury bun? Anyway, your correction of Mary2’s ‘Zenophobia’ qualifies you for associate membership of clique-within-a-clique United Pedants Of The World, or UPOTW (see countless previous threads for your duties/responsibilities).

    I rather liked ‘Zenophobic’ – not only jingoistic racists, but also the sort of people who would make a point of simultaneously rejecting both the paradoxical Stoic philosopher and the jewel of Buddhist meditation practice.

  80. Acolyte+of+Sagan says:

    hotrats says:

    January 26, 2014 at 6:25 pm


    Are you really a floury bun?

    …or an individual breast?

    Mary2, I have an idea that your version of the origin of the low-slung trouser* is perhaps closer to the truth than John-theBap’s ‘anal rape’ hypothesis (and how he made the leap from jizz hair gel to rape is anybody’s guess: it certainly wasn’t the mental image that I was trying not to see), with Darwin’s brother’s ‘gang colours’ coming in a close second – although for that to work I assume they’d have to wear colour-coordinated undies, which strikes me as a wee bit camp for prison life.
    Back in the 1980’s there was a fashion begun by the hip-hop crowd (as opposed to the hip-op crew of my generation 🙂 ) of not wearing laces in their Nikes and Reeboks which was supposed to convey a ‘just released from the cells, what of it?’ appearance, and as it’s the norm to have prisoners remove their belts along with their laces I rather suspect that the low-slung look is the 21stC. version of that fashion.

    *What do low-slung trousers and the Royal Albert Hall have in common?
    Massive ballroom.

  81. Acolyte+of+Sagan says:

    I swear I’m about this far from giving up on HTML.

  82. mary2 says:

    Oy! It was late at night! Does that mean I am finally expelled from UPOTWA?

    We had an unpleasantly racist politician once who was also reknowned for being not very bright: she once suggested, in all seriousness, that Aboriginal people should all “go back to where they came from” (spoken in a really broad, nasally Strayan accent). When a journalist once called her xenophobic she replied with what became her catchphrase: a three second pause followed by “please explain”. I’m with JTB: I still dont understand why anyone would disapprove of Xena – being afraid of Greek philosophers I can understand.

  83. John-the-Bap says:

    Mary2: Oz has a population in the millions so perhaps I shouldn’t be astonished that one sad, ignorant, ineducable slimebot is on the extreme low end of stupid. I’m sure it’s a fluke, or she’s a fluke, probably liver, and does not represent the majority of your otherwise lovely countrymen.
    It is sad but true that zenophobia is common among the yoof of UKland who never grasp the essential beauty of mathematics because they are put off by untrained and ill-educated “teachers” who know less than a four-year-old … liver fluke.
    Many of our children are also given thenophobia, a terror of History, by those very same useless prats. [Note, not all teachers are useless prats. Thank you, Mr. Ian for the books and Mr. James for the Sciences, I will forever be grateful.]
    Then there’s sanophobia, fear of storage area network complexities. Svenophobia, fear of giant blond Swedes. Scanophobia, terror at the size of the pile of documents one has to somehow get into electronic form. Steinophobia, inability to cope with huge German mugs at beer festivals. Seineophobia, intense dislike of pretentious Parisian foods. Spineophobia, fear of harming new books by actually reading them … many newly minted English aristocrats have that one, they buy a huge collection but only to display never to read. And three kinds of skeinophobia, one for ducks, one for wool and a last for those pokey little pen-knives the Uplanders wear. Stenophobia, the fear of loud guns. Spendophobia, an intense hatred of shops that charge 10p for a big packet on Monday and 20p for a far smaller packet on Friday while claiming to be cheaper than the competition. Shineophobia for those who don’t know what polish is for. Extendophobia, hatred of verbose wassocks who drone on and on and on … [Hi, there!]

    On the subject of the True Australians, the archaic Caucasians, they could all go back to where their extremely distant ancestors came from, as could every other human on or orbiting the planet, though that might make the Rift Valley area somewhat crowded. And parking would be a nightmare. Still, at least no one would be lonely and it would make finding your soulmate a lot easier.

    This one I find awfully sad.

    After all those adverts for one comic was I wrong to claim not to be a spammer?

  84. John-the-Bap says:

    regarding JtB’s contribution at 27/0126: no, I don’t have anything better to do. Yes I did stay up all night thinking those up. And, yes, I do think I’m clever. Also funny.
    Please don’t disabuse me of my quaint notions.

    Hotrats, 26/1825: No, I am neither a floury bun nor a human female teat. I am, instead, the short, fat noise made by one unit of the exhaust noise of a GSh-6-30 jetpack when heard from a distance.[That bugger is best heard from a distance. Preferably a different timezone.] I like both human female teats and buns (they are good for holding hot meat slabs) but jetpacks are so cool. I wanted one of those for commuting to work.
    Luckily, for the neighbourhood, I retired before I could afford one. Of course, I do have a pressure cooker.

  85. Cocantra says:

    Great! Congratulations! I do not feel offended at all. I adore intelligent people like you, guys.

  86. Cocantra says:

    Great! Congratulations! I adore intelligent people like you, guys! thanks a lot.

  87. John-the-bap says:

    Hey, people, did you see that? Cocantra agrees with me. He says I’m intelligent. That must make me the latest prof… prophet.
    Yes? No?
    And I still have a pressure cooker.
    What’s the worst thing that can happen to a pressure cooker?
    Gotta love it.

  88. JohnM says:

    Not sure how far you are from giving up HTML but if this hasn’t happened yet try putting the markers in first, as < i > < /i > then write text you wish to italicise in between. Worked for me until I got a bit more pratice in.

  89. hotrats says:

    There are other forums out there, with comment boxes that offer formatting (inserting the paired tags as per JohnM) and preview, which can be used as J&M text launch pads. There are also numerous freeware HTML text editors available, offering the same facilities.

    Is there any point in us continuing to beg for a comment editor, or is it just unfeasable on this particular platform?

  90. JohnM says:

    The rate at which signatures are being added to the Islamist loonie’s petition has slowed to a crawl, and in their desperation they have uttered foul imprecations against our beloved cartoon and its author. Here is the screed being sent out to the signers:

    “Thank you for your support in this campaign. From our humble beginnings a week ago, today we have surpassed 20,300. There’s no denying that the campaign has been a great success and in particular so far;

    1. Maajid Nawaz (MN) has been silenced, and is no longer attacking people with foul language online, as he did so initially.

    2. Maajid Nawaz been forced into an undignified apology (which is not accepted) in an attempt to save his position;

    3. Maajid Nawaz’s group, Quilliam Foundation (QF) has been dropped from nomination for an award from the British Muslim Awards.

    An associated positive development, is that another member of Quilliam Foundation and Maajid Nawaz’s colleague, Tommy Robinson (founder and ex-leader of the far right, extremist and anti- Muslim English Defence League) was imprisoned for fraud.

    It’s not an understatement to say that both MN and QF have been given a real bloody nose (metaphorically speaking of course). But despite these early successes we have been blessed with, this is no time for complacency. The hard work really now begins in ending this so that our demands are met. We must not relent or give up in our aims. Whilst we have had great successes to date, the ultimate success, the jewel in the crown is to make sure MN is removed from the party and stripped of the opportunity to ever run for parliament again.

    It needs to be made clear that he is unrepresentative of the sentiments and the values of the majority of the Muslims in the UK and all who believe that, especially, individuals who hold public office have a responsibility to tolerate the religious and ethical views of others and make a serious effort not to insult people who hold hold such views different from one’s own,

    The honour of Prophet Muhammed (saw) and that of Isa (as) was dishonoured in unthinkable ways. Forgive me for being a little graphic with you all here, did you know one of the cartoons depicts the private parts of the beloved of Allah (swt) and another depicts the Prophet Muhammad in bed with Prophet Isa!

    We have surpassed 20,300 signatures but we need many, many more. The more signatures the stronger our message to the Liberal Democrats is that, this behaviour is unacceptable. It is of vital importance that we redouble our efforts and encourage all our friends, family and colleagues to sign the petition especially now at a time when the counter petition is gaining signatures at a faster rate than ours.

    I therefore urge you all to join the team in making a strong stand and do the following:

    1. Please continue to share, share and share and raise awareness.

    2. Please start getting signatures on the paper petition in your local community centre, place of worship etc; – the link to the paper petition is available below. The email address to return the paper petition to is [email protected].

    3. Please make appointments with your local LibDem MP/Councillors stressing to them how you feel. Please also see elected reps from other parties in your area and ask them to take action;

    4. Please join the twitter campaign, using hashtag #binmaajid. Bring this matter to the attention of any individuals that you know/have contact with that have large followings. Tweet the Senior Leadership of the Liberal Democrats voicing your opinion on how disgraceful this behaviour by the Liberal Democrats is.

    And remember the following words of the Messenger of Allah (saw): “Whoever of you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then at the least with his heart…” [Muslim]

    JazakAllah Khayr

    Thank You,”

    Perhaps its time author rehashed the private parts cartoon (if such exists) just to display our contempt for such persons as this – those who have the temerity to demand our respect yet offer us only the opposite in return.

  91. JohnM says:

    If you have an untraceable email account, such as an anonymous gmail or hotmail, or have “Tor” installed on your ‘puter, you can send a message to the petition organiser at the following:
    [email protected]
    I would counsel you to be polite, yet unequivocal, in your contempt for their witch-hunt of Maajid.

  92. John-the-Bap says:

    JohnM, at 27/0446: One could always switch auto-correct on and set “hhh” to be auto-corrected to ““, “bbb” to “” and other such. Or leave open a Notepad session with the various tags pre-typed in for copy-and-pasting. Or add an add-on to Firefox which will do HTML-formatting in text boxes for you. Or store the tags in an extended Clipboard program. Like this one : http://www.thornsoft.com/
    Many others are available.

  93. John-the-Bap says:

    re. JtB at 27/2300 : Yes. I forgot to escape the italics and bold tags. I’m tired. Jus imagine there’s a start-stop italics before the “bbb” and a start-stop bold after the “to”.
    Then have a nice bacon buttie and a beer. (Or a Quorn or soya bacon-alternative buttie is preferred.)

  94. John-the-Bap says:

    re. JohnM 27/2152 and 2159 : “Polite”?
    “attacking people with foul language online, as he did so initially.”
    Mr. Nawaz was, before the demented mob caught and stoned him (I’m just anticipating here as things generally happen behind the scenes while I’m slowly typing) an M.P. and the chances are that the only times he ever used foul language was when he was absolutely dead certain he was in his own home, alone and the cameras were all turned off. It’s for sure he never did in TwitFace or anywhere else online.
    Which means the Khayr creep is a lying demagogic fraud and rabble-rousing hypocrite.
    And we should be polite to it?
    Okay, yes, we are by far the better men. Though Khayr would have conniptions were I to suggest that Ms. Benson and Mary2 were better Men than he and all his stupid, lying ilk could ever be. They are but creepy Khayr would cut his own nutsack off with rusty barbed-wire rather than admit it. Being the better men we should be more civilised and laid-back and polite. (“Civilised” and “polite” meaning the same thing, really. Behaving as one would expect a resident of The City to do. As opposed to savage, barbarian, uncivilised, impolite goat-shagging nomads without any idea of how Real Men behave.) But if we relax and let those lunatics storm the gates we just hasten our own doom.
    Me, I don’t care. I’ll outlive the bastards. But some of you have grandchildren to think of, or may do in years to come.

    However, I do note that JohnM recognises my fears and suggests we only insult that verminous lack-wit through an anonymous email or anomymising TOR service. While that shows what I consider justified and wisely prudent caution I would ask whether it is the sort of cowardice we should be hiding behind?
    We are free Englishmen. [With the obvious exception of our Ozlander cousins who are even more free.] We should not need to cower behind masks to protest.
    I know it’s a lot safer (hence my pseudonym) but it should not be necessary for our survival.
    Somebody brave, with nothing to lose, who has the ear of the TV and news media should tell those fuck-wits to piss off and to leave us alone.
    Somebody far braver than me.
    With enough money to keep running.

  95. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    John-the-bap says:

    January 27, 2014 at 11:07 am

    ………….. And I still have a pressure cooker.
    What’s the worst thing that can happen to a pressure cooker?

    My late mother! She was delighted to discover that she could ruin perfectly good food in a fraction of the time it took her to ruin it on the stove.

    Thanks for all the html advice. Even this technophobic (and that’s got nothing to do with electronic ‘music’, John-the-Bap) old git might get it right now.
    I won’t be switching on auto-correct any time soon, I’ve seen the misunderstandings that that particular feature can cause, as in this exchange of texts that I saw on Russell Howard’s Good News a few months back:-

    “I’ve got Robert’s cum stuck in my hair. I’ll have to cut it out”

    “Don’t be daft. I’ve had cum in my hair loads of times. Just wash it out”

    “Aaagh, not cum, Mum, I meant GUM”!

    The poor girl will never un-read that. But kudos to her cool-as-a-cucumber mother.

  96. JohnM says:

    @JtB “Which means the Khayr creep is a lying demagogic fraud and rabble-rousing hypocrite. And we should be polite to it?”

    Well, reluctantly… Yes. Otherwise we descend to their level, potentially losing the ear of ‘hoi polloi’ And those are the people we need on our side, if the insanity of Islam and other wacky religions like Xtianism, Judaism, Mormonism, scientology, etc., etc., are ever to be defeated.

  97. mary2 says:

    That’s the tricky balance isn’t it? If we are to remain the ‘better men’ (thanks JTB) we must maintain the moral high-ground by acting according to the values of the civilised but, in so doing, we run the risk that the nutters, unrestrained by common courtesy or human decency will win out by sheer ruthlessness and willing to do whatever it takes. If we, on the other hand, act likewise and refuse to give quarter to the very real risk to our way of life, we also risk giving up those very liberties and way of life we are desperate to defend. I think we’ve all seen our countries sacrifice our very ‘rights’ in order to protect them from the also real threat of people who would take them from us. How do we keep both our integrity and our liberty?

  98. John-the-bap says:

    JohnM and Mary2 : yes, we are the better men, we are Real Men, not weepy little children building fairy daddies to protect us from the dark. We can stare the cosmos in the face and spit in its eye as we have fun and frolics with those we love (or, in some cases, like me, without them). But we can descend to their level as an Emergency Measure(TM) and then restore all our niceness, goodness and liberties.
    Just like our friendly governmental types are doing with the temporary laws and measures put in place to combat terrorism, drug trafficking and paedophilia. As soon as we’ve won the “wars” against those, all those intrusive RIPA’s and others will be revoked and we’ll have all our freedoms back. Right?
    So we could do the same. We gentler, nicer, more rational people, we Real Men, we adults could stoop to the base level of children having a tantrum as Khayr and his like have, we could wipe them out, restrict their activities in future and then return to being nice guys.
    It happens all the time.
    The good guys get all down-and-dirty, make a few wisecracks, save a cute child or fluffy animal or full-of-fun-nun-run orphanage from the evil Overlords then win the girl (or guy if you prefer, though I definitely would prefer the girl, I’m a bit fussy) and return to their state of grace.
    If little furries on the Forest Moon of Endor can do it, so can we.
    And our trusted, beloved governments. Of course.

  99. Undeluded says:

    Been away for a while…

    The “on topic” parts of this thread are fantastic! JTB – I bow to your sardonic wit and penmanship!

    Mary2 – “How do we keep both our integrity and our liberty?”. By being active. By taking a civilized, erudite stance and spreading the word. We may not all be able to publish books like Dawkins or Hitchens, but they were doing the job pretty well! Sites like J&M also work very well, and should have more exposure (we could all help there). And mainly, we should arouse voters to get their governments to repeal their “politically correct” attitude towards any foreign factors who openly reject the basic laws of their hosting nations. (For some reason, similar, local factors are dealt with severely!)

    So – petition against petition, demonstration against demonstration. Yes, we are outnumbered today, but the trend seems to be in our favor. We just need to survive long enough to win… 🙂

  100. John-the-bap says:

    re. Undeluded, at 28/1244 : I was thinking of making an ironic and slightly invidious comparison between your pen-name and your unabashed optimism but what the Hell, you go for it, friend. I’ll be the one in the hoodie, V-mask and voice-masking kit cheering you from a long way away from any fighting, CCTV and NSA snoops.
    I’m all for wiping out the bad guys, as gently, politely and civilisedly as feasible so long as all the brave people do it.
    And I can watch videos in peace.

  101. Undeluded says:

    Thanks, JtB. There was a certain craving to balance your pessimism… Be that as it may, and with appropriate precautions for personal safety, the battle can be won! It begins with legislation on two levels simultaneously – getting rid of PC, and education. I’ve voiced my motto before, and I’ll voice it again: “Politically correct” will be the downfall of Western civilization! (And, in some places, already has been).

  102. HaggisForBrains says:

    JohnM, January 27, 2014 at 9:52 pm – Insert the word “Ball” into “Search Transcripts” top left, and click the arrow below…

  103. two cents' worth says:

    News about the petition, in case you haven’t already heard, and are interested:

    Because I signed the petition, I received email today with the subject Update about ‘Nick Clegg: Give full support to LibDem PPC Maajid Nawaz and take disciplinary action against party member Mohammed Shafiq’ on Change.org. Here’s the text of the email:

    You will be pleased to learn that following the public uproar about the campaign against Maajid Nawaz, Nick Clegg has offered his public support, as suggested by our petition. In a letter to the campaigners against Nawaz, released on Sunday, Clegg said:

    “I very much recognise and respect that the visual depiction of the Prophet Muhammad is regarded as deeply offensive and distressing to you and many other Muslims in the UK and beyond. But I recognise too that there are also Muslims, including devout ones, who take a different view.

    However, the Liberal Democrats are a party of respect, tolerance and individual liberty. We fundamentally believe in freedom of expression in an open, liberal and free society and therefore strongly defend Maajid’s right to express his views. Maajid was commenting on a recent BBC programme which covered this issue and wanted to make the point that as a Muslim he did not regard depiction of the Prophet Muhammad as being offensive.

    It is my understanding that Maajid has made it clear that he therefore tweeted in order to contribute to a live debate rather than out of any intention to deliberately offend, and that his tweet reflects his genuinely and sincerely held religious views. I hope that those who take a different view would respect his right and sincerity in doing so. I’m sure it goes without saying that the death threats and threats of violence Maajid has received are totally unacceptable, and I’m sure you will join me in whole-heartedly condemning them.”

    This is a proud moment for all of us who asked Nick Clegg to give his full and and unequivocal backing to Maajid. 6.500 signatories of our petition have made it clear that the bullying and harassment of liberal and secular Muslims by reactionaries and their apologists has no place in a liberal party, let alone in a democratic society.

    However, there are still reactionaries like Meral Hussein Ece, Lester Holloway, and Irfan Ahmed within the LibDems, who hide behind the label of liberalism in order to peddle their illiberal and undemocratic views. Please see this article by commentator Amjad Khan for details of their campaign against Maajid: http://tinyurl.com/mo8meku

    We should therefore celebrate our victory, while remembering that those who have started and fuelled this vicious campaign are still spreading their poisonous narrative that portrays Muslims as monolithic bloc incapable of tolerating the same levels of discordant views as any other human being. This kind of othering of Muslims is inherently racist and has no place in our society, whereas the human right to free expression within the law should be cherished by all, no matter from what political or religious background.

    Thank you again for your support, we will continue to put pressure on Nick Clegg to take disciplinary measures against Mohammed Shafiq as the main instigator responsible for the hate campaign that has resulted in threats to Maajid Nawaz’s life.

    Chris Moos
    [email footer snipped]

  104. JohnM says:

    Continuing in the fashion of the previous week, and demonstrating the awesome power of Google translate:
    Unum testiculum non ut genitale 🙂

  105. INCUBUS says:

    Hilarious! I love Jesus & Mo- and I suggest everyone looks up the term ‘aniconism’- The prhibition in (manily Sunni islam) against the representation of the human form, starting with the old fella himself god, followed by one his late sales reps Mo-basicaly if some zealots had their way, the Sistine Chapel, Michelangelo’s David and even the Simpsons would all be banned/destroyed as blasphemous and idolatrous- The thing I don’t get, is that if such imagery is prohibited ‘in Islam’, then fine, but what business is it of theirs if an atheist want’s to wear a ‘Jesus and Mo’ shirt? It ain’t ‘in Islam’ is it? If you don’t like it- look away! Meanwhile Muhammad Shafiq and those 20000 people can be happy in their own bubble and be reassured that they will all get to paradise for not drawing any naughty pictures…bless!

  106. Dan says:

    But the Mo in the cartoons isn’t the Prophet. He’s a body double.
    So no one should be upset!
    If people spent more time reading the Jesus & Mo back catalogue and less time reading the Koran the world would be a better place!

  107. hotrats says:

    For anyone who likes pretty piccies – AoS, are you there? – do have a gander at the following, described somewhat breathlessly by its URL:

  108. KenF says:

    That drawing looks nothing like the prophet Mo Molem … peace be upon her.

  109. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    The irony of the ‘No drawings of Mo’ metabollocks is that Mecca was once full of images of the prophet performing heroic deeds in ‘storyboards’ painted for the benefit of the many illiterates who made the pilgrimage. Many of the artworks still adorn walls there, but with the central character scratched out to comply with the later addition of the rule forbidding depicting him, just as the puritan Protestants under Cromwell vandalised the images of saints and other Catholic iconography because they believed it detracted from worshipping the Christian God.
    This of course continues to a lesser degree today, as can be seen in the difference between the Protestant cross and Catholic crucifix.

    I must confess I also love the hypocricy of Nawaz’s fellow LibDem member Shafiq when he said (as quoted by JohnM earlier) ‘individuals who hold public office have a responsibility to tolerate the religious and ethical views of others and make a serious effort not to insult people who hold hold such views different from one’s own,’ as part of his campaign to get Nawaz dropped from the party – and of course murdered, though he was careful not to say so in as many words – for holding views different from his own.

    INCUBUS asks ….if such imagery is prohibited ‘in Islam’, then fine, but what business is it of theirs if an atheist want’s to wear a ‘Jesus and Mo’ shirt?’
    A more basic (fundamental?) question is, what gives one person the right to tell another person, even one of the same religion, what (s)he must find offensive?

  110. John-the-Bap says:

    Hi, hotrats and *THANK YOU* those are stunningly amazing.
    And they provoke three thoughts: that guy is some sort of OCD-genius-level weirdo but he’s the sort we really need in this world. Beauty like that is so rare and mystical and magical the artist creating it should be cherished far more than any politician or rancid priest.
    Secondly, such things were impossible to see, unless you were the one playing with the mucky water, before the sciences and engineering that gave us cheap, freely available photography. I have seen such fun aspects of wild Physics at work with icky fluids while washing-up but they are fleeting and there is no way to share them without technology.
    Lastly, the savages would deprive us of this beauty, and of this one and that one and, of course the other one. You can see a bigger, better copy of the Saturn beauty at this link. I recommend the TIFF.
    Sub-human children like Shafiq and Khayr, with their irrational temper tantrums over nothing at all would deprive us all of such loveliness. They have no joy, no wonder, no appreciation of beauty, no magic and no mystery in their wizened, soulless walking corpses.
    They are repulsive, argumentative zombies.
    Truly. Wishing to deprive the people of such magics is inhuman. And evil.

  111. John-the-Bap says:

    Uh, hotrats, has anyone sent Mr. Clegg and company links to this page? They may enjoy the comments. Oh, and the Shafiq and Khayr lot.
    For obvious reasons, I won’t.
    I like my head attached and my limbs unburnt and unbroken.

  112. hotrats says:

    Tonight’s Channel 4 News carried a piece about the J&M impact on LibDem party unity. The odious Mohammed Shafiq was pressed flat by John Snow; unable to answer why free speech should be curtailed, or why, as a ‘democrat’, he could not wait for the verdict of the ballot box to settle the popularity of Maajid Nawaz, who was again falsely accused of ‘foul language’.

    According to a late newsflash, assorted umpty mullahs were due to meet Clegg tomorrow (Wednesday), but he has cried off. I guess that as party leader, Nick doesn’t want to be the one to have to explain the mechanics of tolerance and pluralism to the most intolerant segment of his party, or heaven forfend, take a firm stand on an issue of principle and risk losing the culturally-unassimilated vote.

    They will now be dealt with by LibDem eminence grise Paddy Ashdown, who will doubtless propose some anodyne compromise to keep the issue off the front pages until it is all eclipsed by the next crisis for the party – which on current form will take less than a week.

    Despite all their blithe promises, they know that they have achieved none of their manifesto goals in the coalition; just provided an enabling orange fig leaf for a Tory stiffie. While in power, they are unable to distance themselves ideologically (or even publicly disagree on tactics) without looking traitorous, so the party will have to make a mad dash for an independent identity, complete with alternative policies, in the fortnight before the election. Will they get even one vote, after a performance like that?

  113. Acolyte+of+Sagan says:

    hotrats, thanks for the stunning pictures. That second picture reminds me of an art nouveau glass sculpture I used to own – until one of the kids turned one piece of beautiful glass into several thousand 🙁
    John-the-Breadcake, APOD is one of my favourite sites, I never tire of browsing there.
    And has anyone sent Mr. Clegg and company links to this page? They may enjoy the comments. Oh, and the Shafiq and Khayr lot..
    I strongly suspect that the jelly-spined Clegg would have had a look here (or had a minion to do it – if minions have minions, that is. Sub-minion, maybe?) just to be sure he wasn’t defending the indefencible. As for Shafiq, et al, their comments about what this site contains proves they’ve never been within a country mile of us, and if they’re as devout as they claim then they wouldn’t dare, just in case an inadvertant glimpse of a body double of their superhero in cartoon form condemns them to an eternal firey overcoat. Besides, if they should take a peek, it would mean that they couldn’t lie about it with any conviction.

    By the way, the beautiful Mrs. o’Sagan has been hospitalised since early Monday evening owing to the sudden appearance of a horrendous abscess which needed cutting out of her lower jaw. They operated on her at 11pm Monday, but by 10am Tuesday it was back as big as ever, so they’ve had another go this afternoon. Hopefully they’ve got it all this time and she’ll be home tomorrow.
    I’m into my second night at home alone, which is the longest we’ve slept apart for many a year. I’d forgotton how lonely a bed can be.

  114. Acolyte, I’m so sorry to hear of the troubles being experienced by Mrs. O’Sagan. I hope all is well in the near future.

  115. machigai says:

    Acolyte of Sagan
    Mrs. AoS has my sympathy.
    abscesses in the face are awful
    (I expect they are no fun anywhere else, either)

  116. Mary2 says:

    AOS, you have many virtual people to sit next to and hands to hold until Mrs O’S can be back home with you.

  117. JohnM says:

    Mary2 has perfectly covered it for all of us.

  118. HaggisForBrains says:

    Get well soon, Mrs o’Sagan.

  119. IanB says:

    My wishes for a speedy recovery to Mrs. A O S

  120. WalterWalcarpit says:

    Aye, Ms O’Sagan, rest well, recover soon and look forward to the soup that’s on its way. AO’S, try to enjoy the extra space for the while.

  121. John-the-bap says:

    re : Acolyte of Sagan, 29/0336: My deepest sympathies for the temporary loss of the comfort and joy of Mr. AoS. That happened to me a couple of times and I know how lonely a large house is without the Her who makes it Home. I hope strongly that your beloved returns fit and well and pretty damned promptly.
    Of course, there may be an upside. Being a jaw related injury speech could be curtailed for a while …
    Or do you (like me) prefer your women … woman … with a voice?
    (Smoothly sequeing back on topic:) I’m sure Khayr and Shuffly don’t.

    And just to be clearer, I’m not John-the-foodstuff, that’s some other nom de plumage, I’m John-the-noise-of-distant-jetpackery.

    Had Cleggy any integrity at all, and any bravery, he would have invited all the major national and international news networks, and FoxNews, to watch him meet with the savages. In said meeting he would have asked them what smashing priceless artworks, including statues that stood for centuries, has to do with praising a daddy in the skies and meanwhile if they like despotic, theocratic slums so much what the hell are they doing polluting <b.our nice country.
    He’s never going to get elected to PM, so why the cowardice?
    He has so much money he can never spend it. He has so much money his great-gret grandchildren will be privileged. He has nothing to lose, so why is he, and all of his pals, such a needle-dicked, ball-less, hypocritical coward.
    I can answer that. Money. He, and his associates, need the money to buy the pomp, position, face and privilege that are what they live for. So hey can’t alienate any church that has rich backers or rich bosses or rich members of the congregation. He can’t afford to offend anyone rich because they all know each other, have treaties with each other and if one bunch blacklists a politician his hopes of ever becoming “Peace Envoy” are dead.
    It’s all back-scratching, favours, back-handers, pandering, patronage, corruption mild and odious and peculation.
    Whether Clegg ever had a backbone, principles and probity is moot. He can’t afford any of those now. He’s a politician.
    It would be nice to have an honest one but I don’t need the work and I can’t stand the company so you’ll never get one.

    Finally, my best wishes for a full recovery to Mrs. Acolyte.

  122. John-the-bap says:

    re JTB at 30/0125: “temporary loss of Mrs. Aos” I really should get better at proof-reading these things.

    The first draft of this was intensely depressing and personal. It had a rucked-up duvet in it. But you’re busy so I’ll skip it.

    Hug her. Lots.

  123. hotrats says:

    He has nothing to lose, so why is he, and all of his pals, such a needle-dicked, ball-less, hypocritical coward.

    “If you’ve got something to say, just come out with it. Don’t hide behind hyperbole and innuendo.”
    – Holly, Red Dwarf


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