Anyone with half a brain, and half an hour can come to the conclusion that not harming others, and being “good” is beneficial to oneself and to society in equal measures. That’s the only reason I needed. That’s why I stopped going to church.
‘yes, maybe you should’,
‘i hope god was watching’.
It was okay, but nothing special. I like poking fun at hypocrisy of religion, but this is too simple. Take it further. Not into any antagonistic direction, but develop the point you’re making.
I have no problems with beliefs. I do hate hypocrisy in religion, politics, and society. Picking on what the beliefs of someone seems kind of like bullying.
Yes religion has caused wars but so has politics under the guise of religion and the “we’re stronger” mentality of evolutionist. Let’s face it if leaders aren’t brought up with a strong sense of morality they will find a reason for war.
And that’s my point, we need a format for morality and religion in its more modern maturer sense is not bad. (Yes, I’m sure you could flame me with 100′s of examples and some wont listen to “reason” themselves.)
I do know that most of those reading will have a strong sense of morality. Think about your upbringing; the classes and lessons told about doing the right thing will your children have the same level of morality reinforcement or are they destined to become another “Paris” or “Lindsey”
Please, don’t suggest that I’m saying that I want them to be bible quoting morons. That’s not the point. The point is taking the best out of religion and becoming a better society.
I feel the same about religion as you do ..
Cartoon is nice. But I think that It can be improvised.
One can have morality without religion.
I agree with you that religion does attempt to promote morality, but TRUE morality is done for the better of society, not the approval of “God,” which is a purely selfish reason for doing good.
My point – why not do good simply to help others? Why must there be any other reason?
Jesus never said to only do good because of God. What atheists do is they create a weak god and then they argue against it… The fact is that the Messiah never said to only do good because of God, but He said that the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself.
Therefore I must conclude that nothing other than ignorance, pride and bitterness fueled this comic strip.
STILL no fatwah declared ……… 93.6% of your work is sooo funny and sooo apt.
I am amazed that you are still with us and it must be thanks to God – both of them.
Can I borrow this particular toon? With full dedication of course.
Jesus was quoting Leviticus 19:18 from the Old Testament (naturally). He doesn’t use the full verse which first defines ‘neighbour’ as one who is the ‘son of your people’. This is consistent with much of the OT, where ‘us’ is Moses’ followers and ‘them’ is everyone else. See John Hartung’s essay at tinyurl.com/ys9x5r
Even in the story of the good Samaritan, where a lawyer asks for a definition of ‘neighbour’, Jesus turns it around. He more seems to be saying anyone who is kind to another has become part of their in group.
Later, Jesus makes it clear to the 12 disciples that they are not to bring the gospels to out groups like the Samaritans. Matt. 10:5-6
Looks like Jesus never intended non Jews to be Saved, let alone treated as equals.
Pretty good i guess.
But isn’t it natural that people feel good when they do “good” acts?
Please save your reductionist arguments of deconstructivism you postmodern scum, and get with the postpostmodern where all action is determined by your highest values. regardless of what they are
Best – strip – EVAR!
“not harming others, and being Ã¢â‚¬Å“goodÃ¢â‚¬Â is beneficial to oneself and to society in equal measures” this does not hold water, killing old useless bed-ridden people is also beneficial to society and their relatives, for it eases the financial burden, still we want to say it is not good. but what is the reason for it being not good? surely not that it is not beneficial…
My Friend, we never said your God said that to do good is only because of him. Whenever I encounter a religious person, his first line of argument was this famous line of idiocy. Why don’t I steal and kill because there is no Omnipresent Judgement?
Why? Morals don’t come from God, they come from trial and error of the society. Steal from a tailor in a small village and people will not have clothes and the whole village will suffer. Steal from the only baker and a tiny hamlet may even die out.
I am not even going to count the limitless logical fallacies and contradictions in your book, and will let you to ponder why this comic strip didn’t put some sense in you.
I love that this strip has opened a mostly friendly debate. It creates emotion and thought, no artist can expect more.
I just wonder what will happen once we destroy this system of faith?
Will they become a morally apt society with the understanding of true benefit of the golden rule?
(above link show the many religions have this rule in one form or another)
Will they revert to money is salvation religions of Scientology, etc. ?
Will they just adapt to the might makes right position? (I’m richer therefore better. I own a corporation with 1 million employees you only have 3/4 of a million so I’m better).
I feel a person is intelligent, people are knee jerk reacting morons; for me it’s scary.
Obviously, time will tell.
I concur in that acting good is beneficial to oneself, it’s self preservation in a Darwinist sense. Keep in mind the laws of reciprocity. Do as you would want done to you, and don’t do unto others what you don’t want them to do to you. I guess that’s one reason why society doesn’t kill the elderly and the bedridden; along with a thing natural to all humans called empathy, the old “put yourself in the other’s shoes” defined as the “ability to recognize, perceive and directly feel the emotion of another, sometimes even to the point of responding physically”
I don’t think people should take pride in doing good deeds when they’re coerced by a “Higher being” Self-preservation springs to mind but there’s nothing holy in keeping oneself from being killed by a predator, god in this case.
I guess the following is the link to John HartungÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s essay Johnny Canuck intended to post http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/ltn01.html
Hey Jason, I’ve been unable to access the internet for a few days, but looking back a few comics ago you asked “Binding Jesus and Islam into one proves ignorance yet once again. Tell me how Jesus was not a man of peace.”
Ya might wanna check out: Matthew 10:34-36 (King James Version)
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
As for this toon, it relates directly to most first-line arguments I have encountered as well.
Don’t let the critics get you down, I wouldn’t change a thing. Rock on, Author.
‘Will they just adapt to the might makes right position? (IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m richer therefore better. I own a corporation with 1 million employees you only have 3/4 of a million so IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m better).’
When was that not the case? This is something Christians don’t do?
Don in regards to your quotes;
1. One main argument for atheism is the fact that it causes wars, subvert the poor, etc. Yet, Darwinism does the same. (Of course both only do so when used by unethical people.)
2. I am not saying that the past was all love and roses (far from it). I truly believe that many of the “causes” that were fought for under the guise of religion had little to do with that and would have occurred anyway. It amazes me that terrorism only exists in the Middle east and not say Africa and Bosnia for instance. ; ) (I should say both parties have ‘sinned’ equally on this.) Sadly blind obedience happens to all populations if told the right thing.
3. I have never in my adult life said the Bible is perfect. (Imagine how much better life would be without blind following selected quotes).
4. I rarely accept a quote out of the Bible at face value. Society has a long history of taking things out of context. (Though I do have fun with Leviticus and people who use it as a basis of superiority)
5. I personally, enjoy faith. It is faith based on the golden rule. I always love the story the “Good Samaritan”. Remember faith is feeling / emotion/ moral compass when not followed blindly.
6. I always have felt that quotas to get to heaven and that only the faithful will be rewarded as ego centric. I believe that it wouldn’t matter in your beliefs as long as you strive to be your best. That you amend for your wrongs; not just saying you’re sorry for the Enron scandal and going on your merry way, but reparations to those you harmed even if it meant poverty/ jail.
There is a massive lack of logic in the hole argument. If there is no cause to act in a “good” (i.e: altruistic) way except God, then nothing in this world is forbidden and nobody would even think that his actions could be “bad”.
But if there is a cause to act good out of religion, then do we not need religion at all te found our moral laws
the only lack of logic here is your inability to spell while you talk about logic.
So, which was invented first, gods or morality?
Logic and beliefs are not required to go hand in hand. It amazes me that people can watch Space operas, dramas, etc. and accept the whole thing as dogma. Then use this dogma later on when a sequel or movie are made and say why its wrong. Yet,I’m not allowed to have my beliefs.
Relationships are not always logical. Ugly guy pretty girl, intelligent girl dumb guy; rich girl poor guy; etc.
Moods are not logical. Crying because you’re happy. Getting into an argument because the other side wont admit he/she’s right.
We wont get into politics.
Please! Sometimes people need beliefs because the feel right. What’s wrong with that as long as they don’t follow blindly?
‘Yet,I’m not allowed to have my beliefs.’
If people keep their beliefs to themselves, and don’t ask for special treatment – education, tax breaks, political influence, laws, exemption from public criticism – that would be fair enough. Religionists in this category are thin on the ground however.
Your christian beliefs ‘feel right’; the beliefs of the sikh extremists who attacked the theatre in Birmingham last year ‘felt right’; the beliefs of the 4 suicide truck bombers who massacred 250 Yezidis in Northern Iraq yesterday ‘felt right’. Feeling right isn’t enough to justify a position.
Steven Weinberg put it very well:
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.Ã¢â‚¬Â
To Carolita, the decades of the Cold War show the opposite.
I just had a look at the aquinas arguments; though i respect that the man probably had a high intellect, but in today’s day and age i just DO NOT understand how anyone could call these arguments amazing! There are flaws in every single argument, an example being the obvious: ackownledgement of infinite regress and the subsequent u-turn which states otherwise.
Also, the perfection argument, for which you dn’t have to be a genius to recognize that though it may follow, it is utterly tautological, assuming perfection.
Go jesusandmo; love ur cartoons.
You do realize that you just contradicted yourself. You say that Jesus never said to do good because God says so, but then you say He mentioned the second greatest commandment is to “love your neighbor as yourself” Hmmm..who commands this? I think it might be God. So the question still stands: Do you only love your neighbor as yourself because God told you to? Would you decide it was OK to go around killing and raping and stealing if somehow it was proven that there was no God or if you simply lost your faith?
Wow that was easy to point out that feeling right is so wrong. Yep, every time someone mentions their beliefs without “forcing” them on others make sure you use the same argument. Because as you say in length
“Your christian beliefs Ã¢â‚¬Ëœfeel rightÃ¢â‚¬â„¢; the beliefs of the sikh extremists who attacked the theatre in Birmingham last year Ã¢â‚¬Ëœfelt rightÃ¢â‚¬â„¢; the beliefs of the 4 suicide truck bombers who massacred 250 Yezidis in Northern Iraq yesterday Ã¢â‚¬Ëœfelt rightÃ¢â‚¬â„¢. Feeling right isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t enough to justify a position.”
Those things are obviously not forcing someones beliefs on another. Yep killing innocent nonbelievers is just an act of feeling right in a nonforceful way.
Lets face it though someone will always use extremes for examples; be they bombers or bloggers.
I just want the average person to take a step back, cut out the higher than mighty “I’m a Christian”, “I’m an Atheist”, “I’m a ….” your wrong if you don’t agree crap.
I could use extremes out there I’m sure of famous atheist, blacks, catholics, jews, muslims, shintos, ping pong players, or even a combo of them who did all or one of the following….
Left the toilet seat up
went to Disney World more than once (gasp)
Stepped on a crack
Chris, I’m sorry if you’re at a disadvantage because English isn’t your first language, but if that is the case, I feel it is leading to problems in this discussion – I’m having difficulty understanding exactly what your point is.
You quote my post:
‘”Your christian beliefs Ã¢â‚¬Ëœfeel rightÃ¢â‚¬â„¢; the beliefs of the sikh extremists who attacked the theatre in Birmingham last year Ã¢â‚¬Ëœfelt rightÃ¢â‚¬â„¢; the beliefs of the 4 suicide truck bombers who massacred 250 Yezidis in Northern Iraq yesterday Ã¢â‚¬Ëœfelt rightÃ¢â‚¬â„¢. Feeling right isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t enough to justify a position.Ã¢â‚¬Â
Those things are obviously not forcing someones beliefs on another. Yep killing innocent nonbelievers is just an act of feeling right in a nonforceful way.’
The section you quote illustrates different degrees of behaviour, all based on nothing more than ‘feeling right’. The outcomes are obviously different. Breaking the windows of a theatre and forcing a production to close is obviously less serious than murdering several hundred people, yet the ‘justification’ for these actions is the same – it ‘feels right’ to the believers. My point – I’m sorry I didn’t express it simply enough for you to understand originally – is that if the only criterion for accepting or restricting other peoples’ behaviour is that it ‘feels right’ to someone or some group, then you will never have a fair or just system, because anyone who is willing to attack or threaten another person or group will get their own way.
You complain that ‘IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not allowed to have my beliefs.Ã¢â‚¬â„¢ – yet you haven’t shown any evidence to back this up. I think everyone reading this would be perfectly happy for you to have your own beliefs, however irrational they may be. Your beliefs are not grounds for special treatment. Other people can question, criticise or ridicule or reject them. If you want to try to justify them, that’s up to you. You have the freedom of speech to do that, but you do not have the legal or moral right to prevent other people from saying that your beliefs are wrong.
we have law that cover that. Look at OJ.
God must have loved stupid people He made so many.
What happened to Santa Clause, do we still believe.
Sorry to add a post so late on, I just love the irony in Jason’s post: “He said that the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. Therefore I must conclude that nothing other than ignorance, pride and bitterness fueled this comic strip.” Way to show the love Jason!
@Michael: the other irony of Jason’s is that he previously declared he would never come to this site again to fight our verbal battles.
As incoherent as that declaration is, I thought it meant he wouldn’t show his dripping-with-egg face here anymore.
Can I just state for he record that I love your mind, Fenny? Not because anyone told me to (or else logic fail does not compute), but because I appreciate a mind with humour and stinging repartée. And i love neurology…
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