Not because he doesn’t exist, obviously.

Discussion (59)¬

  1. HaggisForBrains says:


    Is it true that your new book has a foreword by Richard Dawkins? I’ve seen that mentioned somewhere.

  2. Kelvin Watson says:

    Why does Mo have to have such a big head? Muslim girls at the local school seem to have impossibly large heads under their headgear.

  3. Quine-Duhem says:

    Simply blaming gays is just crazy: I’m pretty sure that any reasonable interpretation of Leviticus 19:19 applies to polyester-cotton fabrics as well as linen and wool. Our underpants and T-shirts are why God won’t listen to us. Don’t get me started on tattoos (Leviticus 19:28) and seafood restaurants (Deuteronomy 14:10). J&M are just cherry picking!

  4. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    I’d love to hear their song: I imagine it would start like this.

    The problems we face
    Earthquakes, skullduggery
    Are because of some men
    Partaking in buggery.

    Second verse anybody?

  5. AofS: Second verse and chorus coming up:

    They’ve got an agenda
    It’s something to fear
    With their gay propaganda
    They’ll turn us all queer.

    Let’s all blame the gays
    As society decays
    In so many ways
    It’s all caused them gays.

    Or perhaps that last should be the chorus to be sung with a Southern American accent. I’m working up the banjo accompaniment right now.

  6. Just a quick not of jubilation. We have been spared the Mormon idiot. What a relief. I’m not a Merkin, but the whole world should be applauding the U.S. erection results.

  7. daoloth says:

    “Hurricanes form from rising moisture created by hot steamy man action aboard a gay Caribbean cruise. When that sin gets high enough it makes the angels cry and those tears fall to earth in the form of massive precipitation because homosexuals are a vital part of the water cycle. That’s why the gay symbol is a rainbow!”
    Stephen Colbert

  8. floridakitesurfer says:

    Since Darwin Harmless brought up American elections, the result that is much more relevant to this particular J & M is the fact that Maine and Maryland both passed laws recognizing gay married couples’ rights to be treated the same legally as other married couples.

  9. jerry w says:

    I’m all in favor of gay marriage, why should gay people not get to experience the loss of their house and half of their income? Equality now!

  10. Jerry W. Good joke, if a bit long in the whiskers. More seriously, why shouldn’t a gay person have visiting rights when their partner is in the hospital, get some say over how they are treated there, or get death benefits due to any other lifetime partner if medical intervention fails. It should be a national embarrassment to America that the life partner of an American icon, Sally Ride, got none of the death benefits due to any other widow of a military hero. That is just wrong.

  11. Sondra says:

    Let’s not get into how much America sucks. Some of us have to live here (at least, for a few more months) and don’t like our noses rubbed in it.
    Oh, and California defeated Prop 37. 🙁

  12. hotrats says:

    You perverts, come to Islam
    Or hark to saviour Jeez
    Lord knows it won’t be so hard
    You’re already on your knees

    Or we’ll take direct action
    We’re going to raise the roof
    And there’ll be no distraction
    Til we’ve slaughtered the last poof.

  13. And the gay marriage bill in my state, Washington, is currently ahead (52 to 48), although it’s still too close to call.


  14. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    Sondra,nobody’s saying that America sucks. It is, by all accounts,a vast and beautiful country chock-full of exquisite natural features on vast scales: The people, however…well, one just need look at how many voted for Romney.

    Nice work in re-electing Obama though. That wind that’s started picking up over there is just the world-wide sigh of relief.

  15. Chris Phoenix says:

    Darwin Harmless: It should be another national embarrassment that I had never, until this moment, known that Sally Ride was gay.

    On prop 37: it was a win for greed and Monsanto. But if it had gone the other way, it would have been a major lose for science.

  16. Nassar Ben Houdja says:

    Gracious it has been a while
    Since hearing from the alternative life style
    Start the bells ringing
    Let the activists start singing
    From the top of this rather old pile.

  17. Chris Phoenix, I’m glad to be the one to tell you. We need to know who the gays are. Because when we find out they are the people we respect and idolize, or are otherwise just ordinary folk, maybe this bullshit of denying them their rights and equality will come to an end.

  18. jb says:

    Does anyone other than a tiny fringe actually blame gays for anything? My impression is that most of the Christian Right would be perfectly happy to leave gays alone if they simply kept it private — and in particular if they weren’t trying to force gay marriage on society as a whole. (Gays of course have as much right as anybody to try to force their agenda on society, but don’t Christians also have the right to disagree?)

  19. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    jb, are you sure that you meant that post to sound as bad as it does? Because it looks to me that you’re suggesting that if the gays want the Christian Right to leave them alone then they should get back in the fucking closet, but if they want the same rights as the rest of us then Hell, just go straight!
    But I’m sure that’s not what you meant.

  20. jean-françois gauthier says:

    @jb: i fail to see how having the right to marry imposes anything on anybody, let alone “society as a whole”. nobody’s talking of forcing heterosexuals into marrying someone of the same sex. gays just want the same legal protection for their unions as other couples already enjoy.

  21. floridakitesurfer says:

    I am with Acolyte of Sagan in not understanding for sure where jb is coming from. But rather than pick on jb (when I am not even sure we are in disagreement), I’d just like to point out how badly gay couples have fared in this arena from the perspective of framing the argument. Marriage laws exist because lawmakers realize that sometimes when groups of people exist; it makes more sense to have a law that applies to the group instead of ignoring the existence of the group and making every law apply at the individual level. Hence we have laws that apply to marriages, business partnerships, corporations, churches, unions etc. Gay marriages exist. Full stop. The laws in this country that are wise and just for straight marriages are equally wise and just for gay marriages. Hence those laws should apply to gay marriages. When people are asked if gay marriage should be legalized they get to thinking about whether they think it is moral. Are corporations moral? What does that have to do with the fact that a corporation (made of a group of people) acts differently than the individual people act? We need marriage laws because (for instance) married people tie their funds together in an inseparable Gordian knot. Gay married people tie their funds together in an inseparable Gordian knot also. We need marriage laws because a spouse is the best person to make medical decisions for an unconscious person. A gay person’s spouse is the best person to make medical decisions for that unconscious person. The question shouldn’t be; should we legalize gay marriage? The question should be something like; should the government be allowed to continue to be ineffective with respect to gay marriage by pretending that something that does exist does not exist? A simpler framing… Gay marriages exist. Are you going to govern or not?

  22. HaggisForBrains says:

    Well said, floridakitesurfer.

  23. oldebabe says:

    Oh, too funny. I even laughed out loud. Where do you get this kindof stuff week after week?

  24. WalterWalcarpit says:

    @ Phoenix you’re still one up on me; I don’t yet know who Sally Ride is but it will be interesting to find out with the fore knowledge of hes sexuality … back in a mo.

  25. @JB you wrote: “My impression is that most of the Christian Right would be perfectly happy to leave gays alone if they simply kept it private.” Exactly. A hetero couple are welcome to hold hands in public, or kiss each other in public. But if you are gay and you try that stuff, you are shoving it in our faces. And they see nothing wrong with this double standard. They don’t see this as bigoted bullshit. And you sound like you don’t see it as bigoted bullshit either.

    I have been trying to drop the term “gay marriage” in favour of “marriage equality”. It’s a marriage. The gays don’t gay park their cars, or go gay shopping. Why the hell should their marriages be called anything but a marriage. I have friends who are gay and are married. Their marriage is what defines their relationship, not the incidental fact that they are gay. Do we talk about “black marriages”… well, okay, we do talk about “mixed marriages” meaning marriages between different races. But there really is no point to making the distinction. What the gays want, and I’d like to see them get, is marriage equality.

  26. WalterWalcarpit says:

    Ah ha! An astronaut! Who would have thunk it? Kinda supports floridakitesurfer’s excellent post.

    @DH I agree. Why are we still discussing this? Marry if that’s your thing, and marry whoever you want; it has nothing to do with the rest of us unless we are invited to the party.

  27. LindaR says:

    jb, Gay people aren’t trying to force anything on anyone, they are just asking to be treated equally by the laws of various countries (I’m in the UK, where we have the apartheid-like ‘civil partnership’ law which was brought in purely as a sop to the bigots).
    I’ve said on other fora, if anyone, anywhere can demonstrate – using logic and reason, not belief – how allowing gay people to marry will harm society or damage my heterosexual marriage, I will reconsider my position. I’ve been saying that for more years than I care to remember, and I still haven’t seen a single argument that didn’t insult my intelligence.

    Oh, and another verse:
    As the world gets more gay
    we’re all facing the day
    when the next generation
    will all join the Queer Nation


  28. Mary2 says:

    Lovely song people, I think you have a hit in the making. Good to see NBH get in on the action (almost).

    Floridakitesurfer- beautifully put. Never seen the comparison with corporations before. Very succinct.

  29. allrac says:

    jb ~ No one is ‘forcing’ you and/or others to accept homosexuality; it is a personal choice. Why should gays and lesbians not benefit from the same advantages, that straight people do? You don’t have to like same-sex marriage or attend a ceremony. Just mind your own business and others should do the same.

  30. durham669 says:

    jb says in part: “Gays of course have as much right as anybody to try to force their agenda on society, but don’t Christians also have the right to disagree?”

    I wonder if that was said back in the 1960’s when it was still illegal for a black woman to marry a white man. “Why are they pushing their agenda on society?” The only “agenda” is equality. I’m not gay but I want equality for all not most. I’m very happy that my state passed marriage equality as did Maryland and Maine. The United States is slowly catching up with the civilized world. We’ll get there eventually.

  31. Dan says:

    It’s easy to resolve:
    Conservative Christians DO have the right to disagree with gay people pushing their agenda.
    AND the rest of us have the right to call those Conservative Christians out as bigoted homophobes and point them out as backward and stupid.

    Everyone has the RIGHT to take up whatever position they like but no one should have the POWER to suppress the (metaphorical) ‘slings and arrows’ their position attracts.
    That’s what I call an effective liberal society.

  32. Dan says:

    oldebabe, You asked

    Where do you get this kindof stuff week after week?

    I’ve pointed out before that Author just listens to religious people and transcribes the incredible nonsense they produce in endless supply.

  33. oldebabe says:

    Dan – TXS. I guess I’m hanging with the wrong people (if I want to hear the “incredible nonsense”), as none of them get this ridiculous. And there are days when one needs a good laugh. Keep on.

  34. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    And right on cue comes the new Archbish of Cant, who is in favour of women bishops, but, as the BBC point out, “While he has rigorously defended the Church’s right to oppose single-sex marriages, he has also been keen to accommodate opposing views expressed from a position of deeply held faith.” (emphasis mine).
    I was trying to think of a good punchline, but decided that one cannot gild a lily.

  35. Dan says:


    None of them? We have bishops in the UK claiming that bad whether is caused by tolerance of homosexuality. People who believe in the literal truth of the Bible (and there are some) are obliged to believe that God may well reek terrible justice due to people’s sexual practices.
    You aren’t suggesting you’re not aware of real people who believe God punishes the world for gay people are you? There are loads.
    They’re all fools who believe incredible nonsense.
    There is nothing exaggerated about J&Ms opinions.

  36. Mark S. says:

    jb says “My impression is that most of the Christian Right would be perfectly happy to leave gays alone if they simply kept it private “.

    This impression is incorrect. The hostility is far more severe than that. It goes to imposing sanctions (government prosecution; gay bashing), even when it is only a matter of *suspected* homosexuality.

  37. sosusk says:

    Jb is absolutely not wrong with what he is saying. Of course, right wing Christians have a right to disagree to gay marriage (and I would love to see them take down sea food restaurants, clothing industry and protest against men who shave and women who braid their hair) but the US is still a secular country.
    Anyone who disagrees with anything has to do so in their temple, not in the government facility. Just imagine the government decreting that everyone on Sundays have to have pasta in honour to the flying spaghetti monster. you would wonder why government would mingle in religions. and with biblic bigotry, it’s just the same.

  38. hotrats says:

    # I was trying to think of a good punchline, but decided that one cannot gild a lily. #

    Indeed one can’t. UPOTWA reminds you that the King John quote is ‘To gild refined gold, to paint the lily, to throw a perfume on the violet…is wasteful and ridiculous excess.’

    As for the bizarre quote, it seems to suggest that the bish will respect any opinion, as long as it is as bigoted as his own. Can we come up with a faith-based initiative in support of marriage equality? No need to actually drag God in, it only has to be expressed with ‘deep faith’, and the dear man will respect it.

  39. Dalai Llama says:

    @hotrats – or, as the wonderful Tim Minchin put it:
    “To gild refined gold,
    To paint the lily,
    To throw a perfume on the violet,
    Is just f***ing silly”.

  40. jerry w says:

    It would seem that some parts of the church are o.k. with gay sex, as long as it’s limited to that which happens between their hierarchy and those boys who work (ahem) under them.

  41. Slowdjinn says:

    @Dalai Llama:
    Or as an old northern friend of mine put it:
    “You can’t polish a turd. But you *can* roll it in glitter.”

  42. I got out the banjo and put the song to music. Doesn’t work. Poe’s law applies. It doesn’t sound like a joke. Especially with Hotrats contribution, though skipping that doesn’t help. There are people who believe this shite, and I’d hate to write them an anthem by accident.

  43. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    I’d have liked to have heard it all the same, DH. What music genre did you try? I see a country/rap type affair; Garth Brooks vs. Eminem?
    Welcome back to your avatar, by the way.

  44. AofS yes, my avatar pops in and out for no apparent reason. Good to see the old dude.
    I’m basically an old folkie, so country or bluegrass. The “Blame it on the Gays” song seems to fit best with a Southern kind of country feel. Except I can’t stand to sing it. To pull this kind of thing off you need to be Tim Minchin or Roy Zimmerman.
    I may have posted this before, but if you haven’t heard it, you really must.

  45. Here’s a sample of the musical style I’ve been working with for “Blame it on the Gays”. I do this piece on the banjo, and had a great reaction to it, but sometimes I just plunk out the melody and skip the lyrics, just to amuse my wife at family reunions.

  46. Oh, I should have made it clear that the last link is to the YouTube video is music by John Butler. I just do a cover version.

  47. hotrats says:

    your link seems to have broken – this longwinded one works:

    Ugandan politicians are often heard blaming the West for introducing Ugandans to homosexuality. The facts are more prosaic: what has been imported from the West, courtesy of a group of US evangelical preachers, is relentless homophobic rabble-rousing. Having succeeded spectacularly in whipping the population into a lethal froth, playing on traditional fears and ignorance, they are now trying to distance themselves as Christians from the grim reality of the upcoming death penalty.

    Doing the Lord’s work is so… nuanced.

  48. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    DH, I think that the only way to make that song work would be to stage it as a full-on, camper-than-camp showtune. Think ‘Springtime for Hitler’ with added camp. In fact, sod it! Write a full musical theatre production around it. 150 high-kicking priests with stockings under their Swarovski-studded cassocks; George Michael as Fred Phelps; Darwin Harmless as the ghost of Billy Graham singing the chorus; PZ as the Archbish of Cant. And in the sub-plot, just to be sure the homophobia doesn’t get tedious, I’d like to cast Ophelia as Michele Bachmann, scourge of the atheist underclass and secret lover of Mitt Romney, leader of the Misogynous Male Voice Choir (feat. The Rampant Racist Swing-’em-up Band), ably played by Samuel L. Jackson.

  49. azoomer says:

    off topic… i wish there’d be an android app for j&m 😀

  50. HaggisForBrains says:

    AoS – Where can I buy the tickets?

  51. jerry w says:

    I once thought that nothing coming from Uganda could be as terrible as Idi Amin, that thought is now been proven wrong.

  52. Acolyte of Sagan says:

    HFB, as soon as I get the confirmation that we can ‘do a Beatles’ and stage the debut atop Scientology H.Q, I’ll send you a couple in the post. What an inviting looking place 🙁

  53. daoloth says:

    @Hotrats. Thanks for the background and extra link. Wonder why mine was broken–it still seems to work for me.

  54. European says:

    @Dan: God’s terrible justice reeks – of sulphur? (Sorry, couldn’t hold that…)

  55. Dan says:

    Sulphur? You can probably just smell the egg on my face.

  56. hotrats says:

    your link is working for me too now, I must have caught the server at a bad moment.

  57. smartalek says:

    The gays don’t gay park their cars, or go gay shopping.

    Well, except maybe in Provincetown, Boston’s South End, Fire Island, the Castro…

  58. Robert+Andrews says:

    Awesome! A lot of good poetry….I’m laughing my ass off, and I’m gay!


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