As a bibliophile, I abhor burning of books, even those of no real value, such as the bible, Koran, Mein Kampf….but this instance is the prohibition of burning one specific book. The Taliban burn all books except the Quran…and next it will be a non muslim woman walking past a mosque with a mini-skirt on or a geezer eating a bacon barm 100m from a mosque…
Coskun is now charged with an offence under Section 5 of the Public Order Act which criminalises using words or behaving in a disorderly manner, or displaying material that is likely to harass, intimidate or distress others.
I wonder. Is displaying the Holy Bible/Koran/Torah in a public place illegal? The materials within are designed to intimidate the reader until they change their behaviour and most personal thoughts or face eternal suffering. I find that quite distressing. With the use of public address systems in public streets, who return to the same place week after week, repeating these threats, I would think that would be harrasment.
Just curious – Are there Islamophilic hate crimes? Or can one merely ‘get away’ with detrimental-to-others-yet-pro-Islamic … what’s the polite word … fetishes?
What about Islamophobic love crimes? Or is that just the status quo amongst us unenlightened infidels?
“… displaying material that is likely to harass, intimidate or distress others.” Cheers, Peter! Now I know of what to accuse everyone I’ve ever met with whom I disagree! Public DISOrder, where I am the public! (Better not ever change my mind, though, or I, too, will be guilty.)
@peter
A few years ago, I saw a woman shout angrily at a Muslim because he was standing in a public square giving out leaflets about Islam. The woman said she would call the police to report this act of blasphemy. Clearly “handing out leaflets about Islam” is covered by “displaying material that is likely to distress others” if that other is a mad old Christian. Nowadays, the woman could perhaps have had the man arrested under Section 5 of the POA.
But, much as they annoy me, I couldn’t ask for the arrest of a street preacher “because I’m distressed by their message of eternal damnation”… because, as a non-believer, I do not believe that message for an instant.
But perhaps I could ask for the arrest of vegans if they try again to show me distressing images of slaughtered animals or battery-farmed chickens.
Personally, I think the Act is flawed. Sure, criminalise “behaving in a disorderly manner”.
But criminalising “displaying material that is likely to intimidate, harass or distress others” seems unneeded because anything genuinely so e.g. racist or homophobic material would already be covered by other laws.
If I burn a Koran, I would be doing so with the explicit intention of causing maximum offence. But SFW? If I am attacked by an enraged Muslim, then the law should come down upon them. The law must not in effect blame me for their inability to control themselves – which is what is happening with Coskun who was attacked with a knife but who is himself facing a hefty fine. Presumably the enraged Muslim who attached Coskun is facing prison?
So it is now illegal to burn a Quran! But you can burn any other book you like because that would make all muslims happy! Expect large quantities of books to be burned in public by muslims with the CPS backing them up as not burning them and allowing all other world views to exist is an affront to mohammed and thus ALL other books must be burnt.
@M27Holts
No, it’s not illegal to burn a Koran. Nor do these days, you get arrested and thrown in jail if you say you’re English.
Coskun not only burnt a Koran, but also shouted abusive comments about Islam using bad language, and made Islamophobic comments to the police.
Swearing in public is technically enough to get you arrested on a public order offence.
I don’t agree with what he did: Stupid though the very idea may be, the Koran is quite literally a holy object to some Muslims. Burning one is intentionally and maximally offensive. I don’t see how burning one was relevant to his stated purpose for the demonstration: to protest against the Islamist government of Turkey.
But I don’t think he should have been arrested in the first place, even though he was intentionally causing offence to Muslims. Well, maybe on a public order offence if he was being excessively sweary: We have to uphold some semblance of good manners.
The whole idea of a “religiously aggravated public order offence” is deeply flawed. It’s a backdoor replacement for blasphemy laws.
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July 28, 2008
I saw the reference to the Coksun case. How soon will slaughtering cattle and eating beef be unacceptable because it offends Hindus?
One of the better ones !
As a bibliophile, I abhor burning of books, even those of no real value, such as the bible, Koran, Mein Kampf….but this instance is the prohibition of burning one specific book. The Taliban burn all books except the Quran…and next it will be a non muslim woman walking past a mosque with a mini-skirt on or a geezer eating a bacon barm 100m from a mosque…
M27, you have passed the Turing test.
No mere machine could imitate M27…even Deep Thought…
Coskun is now charged with an offence under Section 5 of the Public Order Act which criminalises using words or behaving in a disorderly manner, or displaying material that is likely to harass, intimidate or distress others.
I wonder. Is displaying the Holy Bible/Koran/Torah in a public place illegal? The materials within are designed to intimidate the reader until they change their behaviour and most personal thoughts or face eternal suffering. I find that quite distressing. With the use of public address systems in public streets, who return to the same place week after week, repeating these threats, I would think that would be harrasment.
Deer M27Holts:
_Mein Kampf_ is valuable because it show what Peerless Leader is going to do.
Or any such swinish leader, and I apologize to pigs.
Just curious – Are there Islamophilic hate crimes? Or can one merely ‘get away’ with detrimental-to-others-yet-pro-Islamic … what’s the polite word … fetishes?
What about Islamophobic love crimes? Or is that just the status quo amongst us unenlightened infidels?
“… displaying material that is likely to harass, intimidate or distress others.” Cheers, Peter! Now I know of what to accuse everyone I’ve ever met with whom I disagree! Public DISOrder, where I am the public! (Better not ever change my mind, though, or I, too, will be guilty.)
@peter
A few years ago, I saw a woman shout angrily at a Muslim because he was standing in a public square giving out leaflets about Islam. The woman said she would call the police to report this act of blasphemy. Clearly “handing out leaflets about Islam” is covered by “displaying material that is likely to distress others” if that other is a mad old Christian. Nowadays, the woman could perhaps have had the man arrested under Section 5 of the POA.
But, much as they annoy me, I couldn’t ask for the arrest of a street preacher “because I’m distressed by their message of eternal damnation”… because, as a non-believer, I do not believe that message for an instant.
But perhaps I could ask for the arrest of vegans if they try again to show me distressing images of slaughtered animals or battery-farmed chickens.
Personally, I think the Act is flawed. Sure, criminalise “behaving in a disorderly manner”.
But criminalising “displaying material that is likely to intimidate, harass or distress others” seems unneeded because anything genuinely so e.g. racist or homophobic material would already be covered by other laws.
If I burn a Koran, I would be doing so with the explicit intention of causing maximum offence. But SFW? If I am attacked by an enraged Muslim, then the law should come down upon them. The law must not in effect blame me for their inability to control themselves – which is what is happening with Coskun who was attacked with a knife but who is himself facing a hefty fine. Presumably the enraged Muslim who attached Coskun is facing prison?
So it is now illegal to burn a Quran! But you can burn any other book you like because that would make all muslims happy! Expect large quantities of books to be burned in public by muslims with the CPS backing them up as not burning them and allowing all other world views to exist is an affront to mohammed and thus ALL other books must be burnt.
@M27Holts
No, it’s not illegal to burn a Koran. Nor do these days, you get arrested and thrown in jail if you say you’re English.
Coskun not only burnt a Koran, but also shouted abusive comments about Islam using bad language, and made Islamophobic comments to the police.
Swearing in public is technically enough to get you arrested on a public order offence.
I don’t agree with what he did: Stupid though the very idea may be, the Koran is quite literally a holy object to some Muslims. Burning one is intentionally and maximally offensive. I don’t see how burning one was relevant to his stated purpose for the demonstration: to protest against the Islamist government of Turkey.
But I don’t think he should have been arrested in the first place, even though he was intentionally causing offence to Muslims. Well, maybe on a public order offence if he was being excessively sweary: We have to uphold some semblance of good manners.
The whole idea of a “religiously aggravated public order offence” is deeply flawed. It’s a backdoor replacement for blasphemy laws.