If one does not believe nature is governed by laws, but only by the whim of God, one is not motivated to learn how Nature works. Collapse of scientific inquiry was followed by civilizational decline.
Of course, the Islamic Golden Age had little to do with Islam. Religions are like garments worn by various cultures, a more or less superficial veneer. Like a dress depends a lot on who’s wearing it.
What happened to the golden age was Mongols and Turks.
I recall reading the claim that the problem was that in the early centuries of the Caliphate there were lots of scholars of religions other than Islam living under the Caliphate. However, as people converted to Islam there was less diversity of thought.
After the Mongols were done with Baghdad, there was a lot less diversity of thought. Everyone was dead, including plenty of scientists and other intellectuals. Hulegu, the Mongol Khan who performed this extermination was, as it happens, apparently a Buddhist.
Self righteous self pity is not an unusual reaction to a crushing military defeat, such the Hebrews vs. the Assyrians and the Babylonians, the US South vs. the North, and the Muslims vs. the Mongols and the Christians
Western anti-imperialist liberals often beat themselves up over the Crusades, saying that it’s hypocritical to condemn the Muslims after all we did to them. Leaving aside the fact that Muslims have themselves done more than their share of imperialist crusading, I’ve seen it argued that, rather than feeling centuries of resentment over the Crusades, Muslims had pretty much forgotten about the whole matter until their string of crushing military defeats at the hands of European Christians the 19th century. Why would they spend their time obsessing over wars that were several hundred years in the past and which, after all, they had won?
(In fact I believe part of the argument was that it was European liberals who first started bringing up the Crusades, as part of their aren’t-we-awful campaign, before the theme got picked up by Muslims throwing their own pity-party).
Wars, like Religion is a good way of making money for those who control the Zeitgeist. It’s not long till the AI god decides that Mankind is a virus and shouldn’t be allowed to infect the rest of the galaxy…then it’s so long and thanks for all the fish…
M27, don’t belittle the fish, those congers of the anthropogenic.
Better you would dwell on that creature with the lowest coefficient of friction, the hag fish; that slick example of what is wrong with tribology. Had we known that reproduction could be frictionless we would have over produced and destroyed the planet long ago, avoiding the dilemmas we face today. When the eel bites your heel the pain you feel is a moray.
Jesus & Mo (the characters) are absurd, blinkered, and oddly very sweet. J&M (the cartoon) is brilliant: sharp, delicious, irresistible. Salman Rushdie
Jesus and Mo cartoons are wonderfully funny and true. Richard Dawkins
Jesus and Mo make the world a better place, bless their little hearts. Ophelia Benson
In a world defined by outrage and offence and liberal spinelessness, Jesus and Mo is a treasure, whose value we should never fail to recognize. Read them. Laugh. And think. Kenan Malik
The brilliant, celebrated, freaking hilarious atheist comic strip ... Greta Christina
...rays of sanity in a befuddled world. Keri Hulme
The liveliest depictions of Muhammad currently available... Malise Ruthven
J & Mo is the funniest and most consistently thought-provoking cartoon strip on the Net. In a saner world, it would run in a major newspaper. Nelson Jones, Heresy Corner
Consistently amusing, frequently thought-provoking and often heart-warming. New Humanist
Jesus & Mo is one of the most wonderful things on the internet.. JT Eberhard
Wittily captures much of the absurdity of religious apologetics. Mano Singham
I love jesusandmo.net cartoons - witty and sharp! Katha Pollitt
Often hilarious, frequently wry, these cartoons do what all the best cartoons do: they tell the truth through humour. Terry Sanderson, NSS President
...a wonderfully acid British cartoonist... Nick Cohen
I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman
...empowering, important and deeply progressive, not to mention hilarious... Council of Ex-Muslims
March 11, 2026
If one does not believe nature is governed by laws, but only by the whim of God, one is not motivated to learn how Nature works. Collapse of scientific inquiry was followed by civilizational decline.
You don’t say. Could you have been more concise?
Of course, the Islamic Golden Age had little to do with Islam. Religions are like garments worn by various cultures, a more or less superficial veneer. Like a dress depends a lot on who’s wearing it.
What happened to the golden age was Mongols and Turks.
I recall reading the claim that the problem was that in the early centuries of the Caliphate there were lots of scholars of religions other than Islam living under the Caliphate. However, as people converted to Islam there was less diversity of thought.
After the Mongols were done with Baghdad, there was a lot less diversity of thought. Everyone was dead, including plenty of scientists and other intellectuals. Hulegu, the Mongol Khan who performed this extermination was, as it happens, apparently a Buddhist.
Self righteous self pity is not an unusual reaction to a crushing military defeat, such the Hebrews vs. the Assyrians and the Babylonians, the US South vs. the North, and the Muslims vs. the Mongols and the Christians
Western anti-imperialist liberals often beat themselves up over the Crusades, saying that it’s hypocritical to condemn the Muslims after all we did to them. Leaving aside the fact that Muslims have themselves done more than their share of imperialist crusading, I’ve seen it argued that, rather than feeling centuries of resentment over the Crusades, Muslims had pretty much forgotten about the whole matter until their string of crushing military defeats at the hands of European Christians the 19th century. Why would they spend their time obsessing over wars that were several hundred years in the past and which, after all, they had won?
(In fact I believe part of the argument was that it was European liberals who first started bringing up the Crusades, as part of their aren’t-we-awful campaign, before the theme got picked up by Muslims throwing their own pity-party).
Wars, like Religion is a good way of making money for those who control the Zeitgeist. It’s not long till the AI god decides that Mankind is a virus and shouldn’t be allowed to infect the rest of the galaxy…then it’s so long and thanks for all the fish…
M27, don’t belittle the fish, those congers of the anthropogenic.
Better you would dwell on that creature with the lowest coefficient of friction, the hag fish; that slick example of what is wrong with tribology. Had we known that reproduction could be frictionless we would have over produced and destroyed the planet long ago, avoiding the dilemmas we face today. When the eel bites your heel the pain you feel is a moray.
Once, when I was a lad, scuba diving off Largs in chilly caledonia I had a close encounter with a large Moray eel…
“when you’re diving at night, and your feet feel the bite,
that’s a moray” – after Dean Martin.
^ š¤£
Ahhhh. Thats what the postdog meant…far too clever without the reference…
A New Zealander man with a permanent tan, that’s a MÄori.
When two patterns combine in a way serpentine, that’s a MoirĆ©