same2

February 18th, 2015

A resurrection from 2008 today. Currently in Copenhagen, where they’ve been having a bit of trouble with people who think they really do know the truth.

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Discussion (56)¬

  1. Nice one. I love thinking about all those true-believers internally smiling and saying to themselves, “ah, but I REALLY know the truth, not like all those other idiots”.

  2. Its not quite that simple – as atheists quite cheerfully fit into the same chum-bucket Author is setting out here. All true believers are idiots – healthy scepticism and an appreciation that what we “know” now will be surpassed and made less relevant in time is the only healthy stance to take.

  3. Precisely why “inter-faith dialogue” always seems hypocritical, to me. And why intra-faith dilogue has been known to get “a bit lairy,” shall we say?

  4. Sparky_shark, it absolutely IS quite that simple, because Barmaid and I are not true believers in a not-god. We are disbelievers in any god or gods, and our disbelief does not equate, in any way, shape or form, with any belief.

  5. Truth?
    presumably there has to be a ‘real truth’ out there [concerning the true state of reality]
    problem is -how would we ever know for certain we have found it
    Anyway who says they have THE TRUTH is actually only revealing that they are ignorant

  6. I am a firm believer in the universe. No doubts. It is out there. I am here so it can find out about itself.

  7. Ugh. This ‘the’ truth being that what is falsifiable but not yet falsified? Any definition?

  8. thank you caliban27 for finding the right argument; that is the difference between the believers and atheists-“We are disbelievers in any god or gods, and our disbelief does not equate, in any way, shape or form, with any belief”.

  10. I read the punchline and my first thought was ‘how long before the “truth is relative/there are no truths/you can’t prove a negative/atheist truth is as much a matter of faith as is religious truth” wannabe philosophers turn up?

    Turns out they are already here!

    Philosophy: why use fifty words to clarify a point when one could use fifty thousand to really muddy the waters?

  11. Author, please keep your feckin’ head down over there, and never sit with your back to the doors or windows.

  12. AoS
    Q.: why use fifty words to clarify a point when one could use fifty thousand to really muddy the waters?
    A.: because one is in politics, I’d say.

  13. The truth is lies subject to interpretation
    “Profits” sell it like vegetation
    Submissive sheep eat it
    when they should beat it
    Back to the gutters of its creation

  14. Recycling an old joke. Those of you who think you know the Truth are very annoying to those of us who do know.

  15. Author, Denmark needs your support
    people can’t rely on the court
    Multiculturalism doesn’t give a damm
    about the crimes of islam
    But lampooning the bastards is fair sport.

  18. COPENHAGEN, Denmark — A gunman who killed two people at a synagogue and a free speech event spent time in a prison filled with extremist Islamists violent lunatics who cheered when terrorist attacks took place, according to a union leader.
    …
    Prison guards in Denmark fear Hussein, 22, was the latest case of     prison radicalization prisoners driven insane — in which criminals become devotees of militant Islam.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/copenhagen-shootings/copenhagen-gunman-hussein-was-prison-alongside-radicals-official-n308036

    There, I fixed it.

  19. I’m with KPSpong. I’ve never understood why anyone would bother with interfaith dialogue. It seems pure hypocracy when each person at the table believes all of the others to be fundamentally wrong about the topic under discussion.

  22. ISIS has released images that appear to show gay men being hurled off buildings and then stoned to death, part of the militants’ self-professed mission to crack down on “sexual deviance.”

    The horrific execution tactic is the latest in a string of brutal punishment methods applied by ISIS under its strict interpretation of Islamic — or shariah — law, from crucifying Christians to stoning alleged adulterers to flogging young men for drinking.

    ISIS featured a lengthy article in the latest version of its propaganda magazine
    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/isis-hurls-gay-men-buildings-stones-them-analysts-n305171

    Shock and Awe. There’s the TRUTH. It was an ancient truth when the Romans controlled their empire. It’s still true when the heads of drug cartels are keeping their subordinates in line. Find some pretext to separate someone from the main herd, then demonstrate that you are not just any vicious bastard – you are the sickest, vilest, most psychotic vicious bastard that they never wanted to meet. Convince people that the benefits of submission outweigh the potential benefits of opposition.

    Having a photographer assigned to the story is a modern convenience.

  23. For truth read method, Plainsuch.
    The ancients knew the method and its short term effectivity as we do now. In the long run, the less coercive strategy wins.
    That’s why the Romans did so well: not by coercion but by luring barbarians into roman citizenship.

    Haiku-wise

    where the big sized carrot
    precedes the donkeys eager mouth
    the stick rests in peace

  24. Agreed with both Mary2 and Spong – I’ve always found interfaith dialogue to be an inherently weird concept.

    It’s odd in the same way as when Superman turns up in a Marvel comic or Spiderman turns up in a DC comic.

  26. The curse of the strongly held belief is something everyone suffers from to some extent, even if it’s about the correct way to make a cup of tea. However when such a belief is retained as a result of willfully ignoring the evidence, the wrongness of the believer tends to be very irritating and off – putting. I think this is why religion is in decline among the educated and education in decline among the religious.

  27. Maybe we should be grateful that religion is so inherently divisive. Imagine the collective power they would wield if just the three Abrahmic faiths really did manage to come together as a single ‘super-religion’.

    Luckily, even the sub-sects of a single religion can barely get through tea and biscuits before the squabbling starts, and if they can’t even agree over their own god I’d say we were a long way yet from Judeochrislam.

  30. Sparky_shark: I am not in the same chum bucket with the true believers. I am really really confident that I know the truth. But I am willing to consider evidence to the contrary, assuming that anybody is ever able to provide any. Unfortunately, too much of the claimed “evidence” is like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qahB7mYhLxs

    (Atheists should watch that video for a few giggles. Theists … well I’m not so sure.)

  31. Plainsuch, “ISIS has released images that appear to show gay men being hurled off buildings and then stoned to death, part of the militants’ self-professed mission to crack down on “sexual deviance.”
    And on that thin excuse I will indulge in some more shameless self promotion and invite any fans of Darwin Harmless Sings to hear the latest, intended to be the credits sequence theme, once properly elaborated and produced, for a new webisodic series. Comments most welcome.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDwxLOLmaLI&feature=youtu.be

    Author, I think this one is my favourite. Reminds me of a conversation I had with a former “professor of Creation Science” at some fundie university, who claimed that his brand of Christianity was NOT religion. Because. It. Was. The. Truth. Therefore science.

  34. Two cents’ worth. thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately the video at the link you gave me is not available any more.
    I will certainly keep my mates at the Cock and Bull updated on our progress. We’re shooting the first webisode this evening, but we’re planning on banking a few before we go public. Cheers.

  35. Haven’t seen Moses for a while. Did he disappear because people weren’t thinking about him?

  36. DH, sorry–the link takes you to an audio clip, not a video. I hope you were able to hear the song, at least. I tried the link just now, and it worked for me.

  37. The old adage “The truth shall make you free” may be (excuse me) true, but the only thing that’s likely to be free at the C&B is the bowl of beer nuts.

  38. Sorry, jerry, but the C&B is a British establishment and we don’t generally have communal bowls of snacks on the bar. Too unhygienic, you see. Not everybody washes their hands after going to the loo, and who wants to share a bowl with those people?

  40. Darwin Harmless, remenber: if it doesn’t kill you, it makes you stronger.

    Only the powerful
    withstand the storm and live on
    as do the very tiny

  42. Darwin Harmless

    Alcohol kills germs, right? So, if you’re worried about who washed their hands, I’ll order you another drink.

  43. Here in the U.S. we are taught in primary school to not pee on our fingers, but your point is well taken. That being said, I always assumed the nuts were of the friendly persuasion since they are described as “complimentary”.

  44. My apologies, Darwin. Years of being a doorman (doorperson? We were just called bouncers back then) and therefore a sober observer of the habits of drinkers certainly informed my opinion on this.
    And it’s not just a matter of the loo visits.
    Think about – or don’t, if you ever want to eat shared snacks again – any group of people in a pub or at a party. If you watch for only a short time you’ll see hands being run through hair, fingers exploring the insides of ears and nostrils and picking bits out of teeth, scratching of arses and adjustments of crotches, sneezing and coughing into hands………..then going back into that bowl for another handful of nuts or rummaging around that plate of sandwiches or chicken wings looking for the best one.

    And don’t get me started on kids – and adults of course – spraying their germ-laden spittle all over their birthday cakes on the pretext of extinguishing the candles. :-0

  46. Hmmm. If it doesn’t kill you, you will keep getting older. That is one way to look at it. OTOH Being very old doesn’t actually kill anybody by itself, but it does make them frailer rather than stronger.

  48. taught in primary school to not pee
    fresh pee is actaully a sterile germ free disinfectant
    its not pee which is the problem -its everything else the hands come in contact with

  51. If you live long enough, something is going to come along and kill you.

    How do you know for sure? That it may have been so in the past, does not guarantee anything for the future.

  52. If you live long enough, something is going to come along and kill you.

    this will always be true – as even if you find /obtain some way to ‘live forever’ eventually something will kill you even if its the ultimate end of the universe

  53. this will always be true etc.

    Again: how do you know for sure? Only one, and one only, counterexample somewhere in the future and that hypothesis is falsified.

    Why shouldn’t a supposed immortal survive the imaginary end of teh universe? It’s an SF theme, by the way. That immortal usually ends up saying words like ‘Let there be light’

  54. Human cells only divide so many times before they stop replacing themselves. This prevents most rogue cells from spreading very far. To become cancerous a rogue cell must both go rogue AND have a mechanism for infinite replication. As the different cells in an organ reach the limit on replication, the function of that organ declines. The general decline in the function of organs is called old-age.
    Old-age and cancer, each one prevents the other.

  55. I don’t know anything about any truth, not do I care to. That’s why I’m right and everybody with beliefs are idiots

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