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I’d say that in the real world, the set of people feeling particularly insulted would probably be you and any particularly touchy theists who might have read the comment as well. I would be highly surprised if there was a mass of women who were insulted as there are so many women who use the term pussy themselves as an insult to mean cowardly or sissy and who fully understand the context.
The word ‘woman’ itself comes from a root meaning of ’shame/pudenda-person’. Should I stop using that word as well? At what point do you draw the line? There are lots of words that can offend by association, but if we tried to eliminate them all then we would have very few words left to use at all.
Even the word ‘is’ has opponents who would like to see it be thoroughly removed from the language due to the way that it shapes our thinking. They also have a more convincing argument than the one you have put forward for not using pussy as an insult. I suspect that that would be problematic and fairly unenforceable however.
“At what point do you draw the line?”
At cunt, twat and pussy. At currently contemptuous/hostile words for the female genitalia used as epithets. That’s where. And I wouldn’t call it drawing the line, but if I accept your term for the sake of argument, I would also stipulate that by drawing the line I mean criticism, empatically not censorship. I have to stipulate that because the ‘Of course I can call you a cunt!’ crowd loves to conflate the two.
Aw c’mon you guys, get over yourselves. You’re starting to look silly now.
But you already accepted that ‘pussy’ was not being used in the sense of ‘female genitalia’, but was being used in the sense of ’sissy’.
As for the use of names for genitalia as swear words, I could understand your point if it is was only words for female genitalia that were used in this way, however that is obviously not the case. People use dick, cock, bollocks and knob just as much as they use cunt or twat. Even penis is an insult, although weirdly, vagina generally isn’t. You then have non genital words like arse or tits that are used as well, or verbs like fuck, shit or piss. To even try and make the argument that the usage is automatically sexist, especially given how interchangeably the various words are used by women as well as men, just doesn’t stand up to analysis.
As to the folk who are saying “of course I can call you a cunt”, well it may be offensive but it isn’t sexist against women unless you can demonstrate that those people only use words for female genitalia when swearing at women, or never use the names for male genitalia when swearing. Also, sometimes it is justified. Some people behave like utter cunts.
No I didn’t – I agreed that ‘pussy’ was being used in the sense of ’sissy’ but certainly not to the exclusion of the female genitalia. ‘Pussy’ means ’sissy’ only because it alsom means female genitalia. That’s how figurative language works.
Yes yes, I know about the other genitalia words, and I don’t use them either, for this reason.
“Also, sometimes it is justified. Some people behave like utter cunts.”
Meaning, some people behave like utter female genitalia – yet you want me to agree that that in no way equates evil malicious badness with women.
Godalmighty.
Maybe I can make this clearer with an anaology. Suppose you encounter some people using ‘nigger’ exactly the way people now use ‘cunt.’ Suppose one of them explained to you, “Also, sometimes it is justified. Some people behave like utter niggers.” Would you be persuaded? Would you say “Oh, right, so they do, I see your point; never mind then.”
I doubt it, and I hope not. At any rate, the point is (obviously) “niggers” (like “cunts”) doesn’t inherently mean evil malicious bad person. Epithets are constructed by people who want a strong word for various kinds of people they don’t like. There is nothing inherent in the word “cunt” that causes it to mean evil malicious bad person – its official meaning is simply female genitalia. The fact that people (men) choose that to mean evil malicious badness is pretty unmistakably to equate the female genitalia and by extension women with evil malicious badness.
I am so glad to have just had a conversation with my sister ( she could make a sailor blush. Oh hang on, she is a sailor, never mind )
but to reply to the point you said above -
” Maybe I can make this clearer with an anaology. Suppose you encounter some people using ‘nigger’ exactly the way people now use ‘cunt.’ Suppose one of them explained to you, “Also, sometimes it is justified. Some people behave like utter niggers.” Would you be persuaded? ”
My answer would be Chris Rock doing stand up.
His use of the word ‘nigger’ is one of the sharpest acts I’ve ever seen.
And he used ‘nigger’ in exactly the same way that most people use ‘cunt’.
We are the masters of the words we use as long as we understand how to use them.
Words mean nothing without context.
Context is all.
So when women use ‘cunt’ to mean evil malicious badness, are they all self hating? Or just making use of language in the way that they like?
One thing that I am completely sure of is that really sexist men would be appalled by women calling people cunts.
And what is it with this ‘godalmighty’ shit?
Use a proper swear word for fucks sake, we know what you mean.
“My answer would be Chris Rock doing stand up.”
Chris Rock is Chris Rock. You do realize such an act would have somewhat different resonances if it were done by a white person, right?
“So when women use ‘cunt’ to mean evil malicious badness, are they all self hating?”
Verging on it, yes.
“One thing that I am completely sure of is that really sexist men would be appalled by women calling people cunts.”
Oh please – what is that supposed to mean? That I’m objectively sexist and just pretending to be anti-sexist? Give me a fucking break.
Sorry, I didn’t realise that when you said ‘people’ that it was cheating for me to pick a brown person for my example.
As for the self hating thing, when men use the word ‘dick’ to describe someone they find objectionable, are they also being self hating?
Also, just because I think that a lot of really sexist men would have a problem with women using the word cunt, doesn’t mean that I think that everyone who has a problem with that word being used is sexist.
I could draw you an explanatory Venn diagram if that would help.
I didn’t say it was cheating. I implied that it doesn’t support your claim. It doesn’t.
I didn’t say think that everyone who has a problem with that word being used is sexist. I asked what your question was supposed to mean, and asked if it meant one suggestion. I didn’t know what you meant, which is why I asked.
Clearly you’re not engaging any more, you’re just firing shots. I won’t waste any more time.
I’m not just firing shots. I just think that the meaning of words is entirely dependent on the context within which they are used.
and hai kiwiathiest – I generally look silly anyway. It tends to go hand in hand with my extreme bloody-mindedness.