I tend to be skeptical that people can really imagine what they say they can imagine, or contrariwise, that they cannot imagine things they say they cannot imagine. And I mean when speaking strictly, not just common phrases like “Imagine that!” or “I can’t imagine what you mean.”
Kant thought that Euclidean geometry was the only imaginable geometry and therefore had to be true of the Real World. It’s definitely not the only imaginable geometry, and we still don’t know if (on very large scales) it’s true of the Real World or not.
“What is now proved was once only imagin’d.” –William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
This is a good representation of Saint Anselm’s ontological argument. However, perhaps Barmaid could have attacked the word “perfect.” To say that, because we can observe graduated levels of abilities, such as better and still better basketball players, and we can image a “perfect” basketball player (than which none can be greater), it doesn’t follow that, by definition, there exists a perfect basketball player.
Barmaid’s argument appears to be a variant of my “basketball player” argument. There are many beers (pints) of varying qualities, and even if Jesus can imagine a “Perfect” beer, Mo’s “perfect beer” will not necessarily be Jesus’, and neither can be said to exist. (but after a few good cool ones, who cares?).
Then, there’s the idea that we must mirror the “perfect” Being as much as possible in order to make ourselves better (to be Godly, as it were). Such an idea brings up interesting arguments, such as: a great number of abortions occur naturally, or, as an “act of God,” some would say. therefore, we should not fight the right to induced abortion. To induce an abortion of some pregnancies, then, would be a “Godly” thing to do.
On that same vein, homosexuality should be accepted by True Believers, because there are many babies born with both male and female reproductive organs. Such children should be revered as being special in the eyes of God, whatever God may be conceived to be. A god, then establishes “natural law,” and natural law is that which can be discerned in nature.
Well, this is obviously Descartes’s ontological argument, and the counter-argument in the cartoon is absolutely the best. There is no need to say anything further to completely refute this stupid argument often used by religionists.
It is also worth mentioning that a certain notorious philosopher named David Chalmers is promulgating various forms of the same kind of conceivability argument to posit immaterial souls and superstitious stuff like that. The Brights must not allow passage to these medieval ideas.
In my imagination, the ultimate perfect being is untainted by anything as base as actual existence.
So, by the same argument as Anselm, god therefore does not exist.
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September 11th, 2006 at 9:06 am
I’ve been trying to define lots of things into existence! Like Peace On Earth! Will keep you posted on my success. ha ha!
September 11th, 2006 at 9:12 am
I tend to be skeptical that people can really imagine what they say they can imagine, or contrariwise, that they cannot imagine things they say they cannot imagine. And I mean when speaking strictly, not just common phrases like “Imagine that!” or “I can’t imagine what you mean.”
Kant thought that Euclidean geometry was the only imaginable geometry and therefore had to be true of the Real World. It’s definitely not the only imaginable geometry, and we still don’t know if (on very large scales) it’s true of the Real World or not.
“What is now proved was once only imagin’d.” –William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell
September 12th, 2006 at 10:01 am
This is a good representation of Saint Anselm’s ontological argument. However, perhaps Barmaid could have attacked the word “perfect.” To say that, because we can observe graduated levels of abilities, such as better and still better basketball players, and we can image a “perfect” basketball player (than which none can be greater), it doesn’t follow that, by definition, there exists a perfect basketball player.
Barmaid’s argument appears to be a variant of my “basketball player” argument. There are many beers (pints) of varying qualities, and even if Jesus can imagine a “Perfect” beer, Mo’s “perfect beer” will not necessarily be Jesus’, and neither can be said to exist. (but after a few good cool ones, who cares?).
Then, there’s the idea that we must mirror the “perfect” Being as much as possible in order to make ourselves better (to be Godly, as it were). Such an idea brings up interesting arguments, such as: a great number of abortions occur naturally, or, as an “act of God,” some would say. therefore, we should not fight the right to induced abortion. To induce an abortion of some pregnancies, then, would be a “Godly” thing to do.
On that same vein, homosexuality should be accepted by True Believers, because there are many babies born with both male and female reproductive organs. Such children should be revered as being special in the eyes of God, whatever God may be conceived to be. A god, then establishes “natural law,” and natural law is that which can be discerned in nature.
This is a fine cartoon. It sparks more thinking.
November 10th, 2006 at 5:18 am
Well, this is obviously Descartes’s ontological argument, and the counter-argument in the cartoon is absolutely the best. There is no need to say anything further to completely refute this stupid argument often used by religionists.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/descartes-ontological/
It is also worth mentioning that a certain notorious philosopher named David Chalmers is promulgating various forms of the same kind of conceivability argument to posit immaterial souls and superstitious stuff like that. The Brights must not allow passage to these medieval ideas.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:40 am
In my imagination, the ultimate perfect being is untainted by anything as base as actual existence.
So, by the same argument as Anselm, god therefore does not exist.