-
-
-
Get the J&M Facebook App
October 2007 M T W T F S S « Sep Nov » 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 -
- Vol 4 is here! Big Al is the bumper-sized fourth volume of J&M strips you've all been waiting for. 140 strips, from "added" to "moose" - an ideal present to celebrate Jesus' pretend birthday!
-
- NICE T-SHIRT (Thank you for not provoking my uncontrollable lust). Others available, including NEW "street-safe" styles! Click the pic to see.
comix
Other places
Jesus and Mo is powered by WordPress with ComicPress.
It is licensed under a Creative Commons License:
Your donation goes directly to our host:
Thank you!
This has so many jokes it’s hard to even start explaining the strip. It’s partly or mostly true, though.
Partly, because the Bible has a fair bit about keeping women under control as well.
Too true to be funny. But it’s damned on point! Definitely a keeper.
This is such a wonderfully compressed indictment of everything wrong with the right-winger anti-abortion stance that it’s just about damned near perfect. Managing to put so many good points into a mere four panels is authentically ingenious. Well done!
Me loves this cartoon strip…
blasphemy
The Bible also says the the life of the flesh is in the blood. A fetus has oxygenated blood running through it! Duh!
Therefore when you abort a fetus you are shedding innocent blood!
600,000 innocent dead iraqi civilians is spilling innocent blood too. But no one seems to give a shit about that.
WordSword, do you think abortion is murder, then?
Would you support the death penalty (or life sentence) as a consequence?
Why or why not?
Congrats, WordSword. You’ve discovered a contradiction in the Bible! It’s full of them. Now which version do you choose? And how do you justify making moral judgments based on the Bible when your good book can’t even make up its own mind?
WordSword: So your bible says different, conflicting things about what life is and when/where it begins … how do you choose which one is the unerrant word of god, and which one can be handily ignored? Just curious….
Close but no cigar… Ex 21.22 says if you cause premature birth w/o serious damage it’s a fine. Ex 21.23 says if it’s serious then it’s the whole eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, etc.
This would also be more of a condemnation of Judaism than Christianity – what with the addition of ‘turn the other cheek’ and all that stuff from the sermon on the mount.
To clarify, the original Hebrew ×™× ×¦×•(Strongs 5327) meant to be expelled, brought out, or come out.
The real meaning is that if the injury causes the woman to go into labor and the child be born without harm, the father of the child shall determine the punishment. If the child died, the next verse requires life for life.
However, taking into account the example given by the cartoon as well, the bible then contradicts itself. So which do you believe? This sort of contradiction should not be tolerated in a text that one lives there life trying to abide by. The bible simply allows you to take whatever position is most convenient for you and be in the right no matter what.
That’s not what the Bible says. It indicates that if someone causes a *premature birth* and no harm follows, then a fine. If harm follows (either to the mother or preemie child) then the guilty ones pay eye for eye, etc.
The Truth: Ruining Jokes Since ~4004 B.C.
“The Bible also says the life of the flesh is in the blood. A fetus has oxygenated blood running through it! ”
No, no, no; you’re looking for an evidential, naturalistic validation of the bible, and we all know such things are to be ignored. Whatever chemica-whatsits and glop and goo there is sloshing about it in there, the fetus doesn’t have Life in its blood until it gets the Breath. You can’t see it, you can’t prove it, but that’s just how it is–it’s faith!
“Therefore when you abort a fetus you are shedding innocent blood!”
Oh, heavens no–only if you cut it up.
Boy, I can’t see how to get around WordSword’s impeccable logic. He’s got us all there. Until the next self-styled “interpreter” comes around.
[...] esta graciosa historieta que parece indicar que el aborto no estaba prohibido en la Biblia. Yo no soy ningún experto en [...]
The Bible tells us all kinds of things, though, doesn’t it? Have a look around Wordswordy person, and let’s see if you’ll obey everything in it.
And while I’m on the subject, learn ancient greek, to make sure you get the original text, instead of all the edited, “cleaned up” versions. I did. So you can, too, if you want to speak with any semblance of authority.
Men equate their power and integrity with the intactness and control of “their” women’s reproductive organs. The more conservative the society, the more this is true, and the more of a woman’s body this hysteria extends to. (Hysteria = identifying with the uterus — look up the history and etymology of the concept of hysteria).
This is a simple observation that can be made after several years of research, which I would recommend to anybody hoping to speak seriously about blasphemy and what the Bible actually does say.
Bon voyage!
Hmm, we don’t really need to look for an actual instruction, rather we need to think about implications. If it is possible that abortion may be wrong then how do we avoid the occasion of requiring abortion? Either no sex or better contraception. Adults need to educate their children about these choices and the need to think things through before embarking on a sex life.
Newcomer to your great website, I gotta say, this shit is HIGHLARIOUS!
Keep it up guys/man/whoever, I love it!
that is stupid. how does abortion being wrong have anything to do with controling women? killing babies is wrong, whether they are born or partly or not at all. i dont think it is funny to joke about it, and i find this tasteless.
Lets get the real quote from Scripture:
Exodus 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Notice if the child departs (is caused to come out of the womb)
there is a price to pay. But if any mischief (damage) it is life for life, eye for eye, and burn for burn. So if the child is cut up as in some abortions the cutter should be cut. If it is burned as is often the case with a chemical
then the burner should be burned. Looks like the death penalty to me.
You have no argument but a strawman you set up to misquote the Bible.
Arrrrrgh!
I’ve gotten a paper cut, guess i’ve shed my own innocent blood…
I assume it’s innocent, because what did my blood ever do to any of you :-p
Exodus 21
21:22 If men fight and hit a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no serious injury, he will surely be punished in accordance with what the woman’s husband demands of him, and he will pay what the court decides.
21:23 But if there is serious injury, then you will give a life for a life,
22 “And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. 23 But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 branding for branding, wound for wound, blow for blow.
Wordsword – so, by your logic, if you abort the fetus prior to vascularization (i.e. when there is no oxygenated, or other, blood in the fetus) it wouldn’t be shedding innocent blood?
So I guess you’ve got a month or so after fertilization to abort?
hmm
It’s not that clear that Exodus 21:22 is about miscarriage. It seems vs. 23 is about miscarriage, and it stipulates a penalty of life for life. See the following, from the NASB (a literal translation):
Exodus 21:22-4 If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Ahem…
Ex 21:22 ““And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs…”
There are two key elements present here.
He must be “fined” or “beaten” only if they hit the pregnant woman by accident, meaning that no one tried on purpose to kill her or the child, and if no fatal accident occurs, meaning that the child lived after the accident.
It says at Ex 21:23 “But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul…”
Umm, since about half of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion, with the zygote being flushed from the womb before the woman even knows she’s pregnant, the whole “life begins at conception” argument starts to reek more and more of bullshit, doesn’t it?
Fucking nitwits. Stop trusting the word of some 6,000-year-dead asshole for advice on living in the modern world.
Stop using religion for fun.
I have always loved all the Jesus and Mo comic strips – until this one. Not all people who are anti-abortion are religious nor are they anti-female. I’m a female atheist, but I am anti-abortion except in the cases of maternal health, fetal health (not eugenics, but such as if the baby isn’t developing a spine), or rape. I just think that it shouldn’t be used as a form of birth control.
Sex education needs to be revised. Abstinence only education doesn’t work. It would be nice if it did, but we have to work within the confines of reality and not what we WISH was reality. Teens are having sex. Heck, PRE-Teens are now having sex! So, we should at least be teaching them to be responsible. And no, that doesn’t just mean “here have a condem – be safe.” That means teaching them the good, the bad, and the ugly of ALL of it. Not just what SOME people want them to know.
However, back to abortion – as a woman who has suffered three miscarriages in her lifetime and will likely never be able to have a child, I find it truly heartbreaking that women are throwing away so many children each and every day. I would love to be able to have children of my own, but that will probably never happen. However, I fully intend on adopting if I cannot have children.
Why is it that if you are an atheist, people assume that you should believe in abortion? Even forgoing the whole philosophy of when life begins, it is unsavory at best. I also don’t know why is is associated with feminism. The right to abortion isnt like the right to an education or a job or right to own property. In the vast majority of cases, abortion is about convenience. The sex was consensual, if not the consequenses (in most cases, excluding rape). It’s not like we force all women to have sex and thus their only choice is child rearing or abortion. And men should have some say too. It is true that the womans body bears the discomfort and pain of actual child bearing, but the child and it’s genetic material are half of the fathers.
In what evolutionary sense could it possibly be adaptive to proceed with abortions. Are we really at the point where we feel the need and right to ‘cull’ our own population?
I think this community sometimes gets caught up only in taking the exact opposite of what the Religious Right says, just because they are so narrow minded and stupid. But this issue really should be debated among intelligent people as a complicated issue, not in black and white, or in terms of “Jesus said…” or “Jesus was a dumbass.” What benefits to society do abortions really provide? Is it a right or a convenience? And where do we draw the line? Sperm? Cells? or something that is enough of our likeness to merit some care?
I just want to hear some real thoughts from the left too.
Surely what is right for the individual woman is simply right? After all, a mother’s ‘instinct’ is supossed to be pretty empathic isn’t it? As a man, I find having a black and white opinion on abortion impossible. Surely as a woman, this is exasperated even more so? Black and white never works in real life, and in my opinion wisdom has to be found on each and every occassion. Doesn’t the bible also say (and I am no expert) ‘judge not lest he be judged’. Never a finer piece of wisdom written I reckon….
I’ve never had a bible tell me anything, it just sits there quietly in the drawer of the little table next to the bed in the No-tel Mo-tel.
On the other hand, in the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers Comics, I got an education that has proved to be perfect for me. I can draw strength from the knowledge that “Weed will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no weed.” Simple and to the point, it will stand the test of time. Now, if they had only taken the time to list those numbers for the chapters and verses, you’d see some real explanations on the way life is.
It was Freewheelin’ Frank who long before 9-11 suggested taking a bomb on a plane. The way he explained it, since the chance that there would be two people taking a bomb on a plane was next to none, you’d be safe. This is stronger logic than anything I’ve ever heard the bible thumpers say when they knock on my door early on a Sunday morning.
Otherwise, it’s the Flying Spagetti Monster for me.
http://boskolives.wordpress.com/
I agree with Amanda and Brian. There is no link between being an atheist and being anti-aborton. I am both of those things. Morality has nothing to do with God and abortion is essentailly a question of morality. It is possible for abortion to be wrong for reasons not found in the bible. It is also possible for abortion to be wrong without having to equate it to murder (after all killing adult humans is not always human). It is also possible for abortion to be wrong without excluding the possibility of exceptions (speeding is wrong, but we can all think of exceptions to this general rule). It is also possible for very early abortions to be Ok but late abortions to be wrong.
The existance of God is a black and white issue (he either exists or not). Abortion like any moral issue is much more complex.
[...] More in this great blog [...]
excellent strip,
abortion is the choice of the mother until the foetus has a nervous system,
morality is determined (in the real world) by avoiding physical or psychological suffering.
a woman, who is pregnant, and does not want to be, (by rape, mistake or whatever does not matter!) SHE will ALWAYS be more important than a pre-nervous-system fetous,
if the embryo can’t suffer, becouse is not developed enough, (on the first 2 months) then it can be aborted.
suffering is the only thing that matters in reality. That’s how I see it.
Bronze age mythology has nothing to do with what is moral or not.
[...] Lo que realmente dice la Biblia sobre el abortowww.jesusandmo.net/2007/10/22/women/ por kurtinaitis hace pocos segundos [...]
[...] comic’s take on abortions and religion. (via Pharyngula). local [...]
NRSV also translates as miscarriage, suggesting that the question of harm is concerning the condition of the pregnant woman, not the miscarried fetus.
ESV goes with ‘her children come out’, but it should be noted that there’s a footnote on the passage: “or: ‘…so that her children come out and it is clear who was to blame, he shall be fined as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he alone shall pay. If it is unclear who is to blame…’”
In which case, it’s not an issue of harm at all, but of whether he’s at fault for it or not. Though the penalty for being unsure seems to suck in that case.
It is unclear in the English translation what is being referred to as far as the ‘harm coming to it’ – the pregnant woman, or the child who comes out.
Well said Tim.
Unusual number of replies here. Abortion is a sensitive subject it seems. I think it was Bill Clinton who said that abortion should be safe, legal an rare.
If abortion is wrong, why would it be ok in the case of rape? Is it always ok to kill the child of a rapist, or is abortion only ok if you agree with the woman’s reasons? If the latter is the case, how can you think that your position is about anything but controlling women?
[...] this is what the abortion debate is all [...]
Turns out banning abortion simply pushes it underground. Number of abortions performed does NOT drop when it is outlawed, but number of deaths of women who have them goes way up.
Well, author did a good job didn’t he? That is, if he wanted to stimulate discussion anyway.
Abortion, miscarriage, the coil (which is supposed to stop a fertilised egg embedding in the wall of the uterus), all controversial, all bad for the health, all a matter for weeping. [Yes, even miscarriage is controversial, they try and make you feel guilty in a hundred subtle ways; you could have done this, you might not have done that, if you had…. if you hadn’t….
Control is a big factor in human relationships.
With all these atheist anti-abortionists speaking up, I want to raise my hand as a pro-choice Christian. I think abortion is generally a bad choice, but I don’t think it is a choice anyone makes lightly. It is not my place to dictate to ANY woman (not even my wife) what she must do regarding a pregnancy. If the child isn’t wanted then it’s better that it not be born. Seriously.
With respect to this cartoon, Ex 21:22 is talking about premature birth, not miscarriage (let alone abortion). And the following verses are pretty clear about the law if the child dies. To claim this is biblical support for abortion is a little… odd. Abortion is OK as long as the baby survives?? Come off it.
And to say that Gen 2:7 gives the “biblical definition of life” is drawing a ridiculously long bow.
There are contradictions in the bible – but this isn’t one of them. I don’t accept that these laws apply to me (under Ex 21:17 I’d have been put to death long ago!) – but they are consistent. That religion is used as a tool by men to control women is a valid point but it’s undermined by the 1st 3 panels.
Not your best work.
For those leaving messages using the bible to support death for all instances of abortion: Your god performs millions of abortions every year. If you claim your god to be omnipotent, then he must take full responsibility for his actions, including miscarriages. So in your support for the death penalty for abortion, you implicitly support putting your god to death, and this is a very rare case in which we are in full agreement. DEATH TO GOD!!!
Biblical law was the method of social control of the times. It isn’t relevant to associate the death penalty for causing miscarriage in this day and age. It isn’t relevant to take the bible literally, we are not a nomadic society and the old testament is not so fantastically relevant to Christianity anyway. Individuals must decide what they choose, individuals have always decided what they choose, no one does something without first deciding to in some way or another. Having said that, one must realise that if one is totally controlled by another it might feel as though there is no choice, but there is. The consequences may actually be worse if deciding to ignore the controller or controls is the choice taken, but there is always a choice.