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	<title>Comments on: love</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/</link>
	<description>Two prophets, living together.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:52:27 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: dysamoria</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-175614</link>
		<dc:creator>dysamoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 16:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-175614</guid>
		<description>Being prolific with women doesn&#039;t mean the guy isn&#039;t gay. There are plenty of cases in which people force themselves, their kids, etc. to have tons of sex with many women because they think it&#039;ll force the gay out. Look at the men who marry women &amp; start families only to one day divorce because they can no longer live the lie &amp; cannot have honest enjoyable sex with their wives. Forcing someone to do acts they&#039;re not naturally inclined toward is as useful as prayer and equally self-delusional. (note: this doesn&#039;t include good-habit-making procedures like exercise and healthy eating ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being prolific with women doesn&#8217;t mean the guy isn&#8217;t gay. There are plenty of cases in which people force themselves, their kids, etc. to have tons of sex with many women because they think it&#8217;ll force the gay out. Look at the men who marry women &amp; start families only to one day divorce because they can no longer live the lie &amp; cannot have honest enjoyable sex with their wives. Forcing someone to do acts they&#8217;re not naturally inclined toward is as useful as prayer and equally self-delusional. (note: this doesn&#8217;t include good-habit-making procedures like exercise and healthy eating <img src='http://www.jesusandmo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: lol</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-168699</link>
		<dc:creator>lol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 06:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-168699</guid>
		<description>Slack, sure, but should we give her drug-addled pronouncements credence? :P
I&#039;m far from an expert on these things, but he was pretty prolific when it came to women. I&#039;m more inclined to think that he was simply a mess of unthinking self-contradition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slack, sure, but should we give her drug-addled pronouncements credence? <img src='http://www.jesusandmo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I&#8217;m far from an expert on these things, but he was pretty prolific when it came to women. I&#8217;m more inclined to think that he was simply a mess of unthinking self-contradition.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: author</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-168676</link>
		<dc:creator>author</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-168676</guid>
		<description>@lol - I&#039;m dubious about love as a basis for morality, too. But the barmaid used to be a bit of a hippy, so I think we should cut her some slack. 

Re human rights, the UDHR seems like a reasonable place to start.

Your physicist friend was probably gay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lol &#8211; I&#8217;m dubious about love as a basis for morality, too. But the barmaid used to be a bit of a hippy, so I think we should cut her some slack. </p>
<p>Re human rights, the UDHR seems like a reasonable place to start.</p>
<p>Your physicist friend was probably gay.</p>
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		<title>By: lol</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-168674</link>
		<dc:creator>lol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-168674</guid>
		<description>re: panel 2.

I&#039;m dubious as to how the chemical process that we dub &quot;love&quot; is a firm basis for any set of morals. Why should we give it any particular meaning? I&#039;m also fairly sure that love sets some people above others as far as the lover is concerned, so it isn&#039;t really a good start for any sort of egalitarian system.
I&#039;m less opposed to the idea of compassion, though, as that seems more linked to Dan Barker&#039;s idea that a &quot;morality based on reason&quot; would be arrived at by attempting to &quot;minimise harm&quot;. However, I&#039;m still concerned that an emotion forms the basis of such a morality, since I find it plausible that any two people, when faced with two different sorts of suffering, might consider one more dire than the other. How do you deal with these discrepancies between the people&#039;s own morality to form the rules of a society? The only solution I see is to base consensus, which can be problematic.
I&#039;m also tempted to ask, &quot;Which universal human rights?&quot;.
Panel 3 actually reminds me of a Physicist with whom I lived for a year at University. He was an atheist and was pretty firmly anti-gay - while, of course, railing at religion being unfair to women - as is another atheist friend of mine. To be fair, though, it&#039;s always frustrated me that people of faith concentrate so much on homosexuality. The Qur&#039;an seems to say that homosexual acts are a sin, but there&#039;s nothing to suggest it&#039;s the &quot;worst sin ever&quot;, to paraphrase the Simpsons. I&#039;m fairly certain there are sins condemned far worse in the literature, but as far as the practitioners go, the anti-gay thing takes up far too much time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: panel 2.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m dubious as to how the chemical process that we dub &#8220;love&#8221; is a firm basis for any set of morals. Why should we give it any particular meaning? I&#8217;m also fairly sure that love sets some people above others as far as the lover is concerned, so it isn&#8217;t really a good start for any sort of egalitarian system.<br />
I&#8217;m less opposed to the idea of compassion, though, as that seems more linked to Dan Barker&#8217;s idea that a &#8220;morality based on reason&#8221; would be arrived at by attempting to &#8220;minimise harm&#8221;. However, I&#8217;m still concerned that an emotion forms the basis of such a morality, since I find it plausible that any two people, when faced with two different sorts of suffering, might consider one more dire than the other. How do you deal with these discrepancies between the people&#8217;s own morality to form the rules of a society? The only solution I see is to base consensus, which can be problematic.<br />
I&#8217;m also tempted to ask, &#8220;Which universal human rights?&#8221;.<br />
Panel 3 actually reminds me of a Physicist with whom I lived for a year at University. He was an atheist and was pretty firmly anti-gay &#8211; while, of course, railing at religion being unfair to women &#8211; as is another atheist friend of mine. To be fair, though, it&#8217;s always frustrated me that people of faith concentrate so much on homosexuality. The Qur&#8217;an seems to say that homosexual acts are a sin, but there&#8217;s nothing to suggest it&#8217;s the &#8220;worst sin ever&#8221;, to paraphrase the Simpsons. I&#8217;m fairly certain there are sins condemned far worse in the literature, but as far as the practitioners go, the anti-gay thing takes up far too much time.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-168533</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-168533</guid>
		<description>@MaryD -- there isn&#039;t really a connection between atheism and homosexuality.  There are plenty of gay men and women who are theists.  And there are plenty of straight atheists.  Where there is a connection is between homophobia and theism.  

Atheists rarely have a reason to be anti-gay -- they have no god to tell them how terrible it is, so they are free to be themselves or allow others to do so.  But being an atheist doesn&#039;t make you any more or less likely to be gay.  (It does make you more likely to be okay with it if you are gay, though.)

And, of course, reproduction is not the primary motivation for people falling in love these days.  If it were, I&#039;d have women lining up at my door (I make great kids.)

Lastly, I agree that adopting a religion means following the rules of that belief set, but, when it comes to homosexuality, that all too often results in tragedy.  Too many gay men deny their sexuality because they believe it is wrong and that they can&#039;t possibly be gay -- consider Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Gov. McGreevey, the WBC guy, and so on.  (I wrote about this here: http://www.parentdish.com/2009/01/29/gay-kids-tell-their-stories-in-crisis  ). 

As for murderers, thieves, and priests -- atheists are far more anti-murder than christians and muslims.  (If I were a true bible-following christian, I would have had to kill each of my kids hundreds of times each.)  The same is likely true of theft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MaryD &#8212; there isn&#8217;t really a connection between atheism and homosexuality.  There are plenty of gay men and women who are theists.  And there are plenty of straight atheists.  Where there is a connection is between homophobia and theism.  </p>
<p>Atheists rarely have a reason to be anti-gay &#8212; they have no god to tell them how terrible it is, so they are free to be themselves or allow others to do so.  But being an atheist doesn&#8217;t make you any more or less likely to be gay.  (It does make you more likely to be okay with it if you are gay, though.)</p>
<p>And, of course, reproduction is not the primary motivation for people falling in love these days.  If it were, I&#8217;d have women lining up at my door (I make great kids.)</p>
<p>Lastly, I agree that adopting a religion means following the rules of that belief set, but, when it comes to homosexuality, that all too often results in tragedy.  Too many gay men deny their sexuality because they believe it is wrong and that they can&#8217;t possibly be gay &#8212; consider Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Gov. McGreevey, the WBC guy, and so on.  (I wrote about this here: <a href="http://www.parentdish.com/2009/01/29/gay-kids-tell-their-stories-in-crisis" rel="nofollow">http://www.parentdish.com/2009/01/29/gay-kids-tell-their-stories-in-crisis</a>  ). </p>
<p>As for murderers, thieves, and priests &#8212; atheists are far more anti-murder than christians and muslims.  (If I were a true bible-following christian, I would have had to kill each of my kids hundreds of times each.)  The same is likely true of theft.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-168530</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-168530</guid>
		<description>Hey, count me in for the Sins of the Day fest!  (Only, do I really have to have sex with a guy?  Guys are gross!  Besides, my wife is the jealous type.  Can I just cop a feel or something?)   We should make sure it&#039;s not just limited to Christianity.  Bacon is good, as are cheeseburgers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, count me in for the Sins of the Day fest!  (Only, do I really have to have sex with a guy?  Guys are gross!  Besides, my wife is the jealous type.  Can I just cop a feel or something?)   We should make sure it&#8217;s not just limited to Christianity.  Bacon is good, as are cheeseburgers.</p>
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		<title>By: Urmensch</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-168489</link>
		<dc:creator>Urmensch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 12:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-168489</guid>
		<description>MaryD seems to think murderers and thieves are somehow analagous to homosexuals. 
Perhaps she could &#039;rationally&#039; defend how exactly homosexuals are like criminals?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MaryD seems to think murderers and thieves are somehow analagous to homosexuals.<br />
Perhaps she could &#8216;rationally&#8217; defend how exactly homosexuals are like criminals?</p>
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		<title>By: John Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-168486</link>
		<dc:creator>John Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 11:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-168486</guid>
		<description>@MaryD - There are documented cases of animals (rams) for instance that only have homosexual sex.  They have found the these rams have a genetic makeup different from herd by about 1%, but alas no gauge of their moral fiber.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MaryD &#8211; There are documented cases of animals (rams) for instance that only have homosexual sex.  They have found the these rams have a genetic makeup different from herd by about 1%, but alas no gauge of their moral fiber&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Urmensch</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-168485</link>
		<dc:creator>Urmensch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 09:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-168485</guid>
		<description>MaryD,
Nature is not teleological. It is enough that there is a need for sexual release and pregnancy will happen. If humans only had sex in order to reproduce why would human couples continue to have sex even when the female is pregnant? What about all the sex that can&#039;t lead to pregnancy?
Saying â€˜the bits donâ€™t fitâ€™ just shows a lack of imagination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MaryD,<br />
Nature is not teleological. It is enough that there is a need for sexual release and pregnancy will happen. If humans only had sex in order to reproduce why would human couples continue to have sex even when the female is pregnant? What about all the sex that can&#8217;t lead to pregnancy?<br />
Saying â€˜the bits donâ€™t fitâ€™ just shows a lack of imagination.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: MaryD</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2010/06/04/love/#comment-168484</link>
		<dc:creator>MaryD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 07:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/?p=1238#comment-168484</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see the connection between atheism and homosexuality.
As a rationalist I see no evidence of a god so I don&#039;t believe there is one.
As a rationalist I see evidence that the man species of monkey requires two sexes for reproduction so where does the mono-sexuality of homosexuality come in? Surely &#039;the bits don&#039;t fit&#039;.

If you feel the need to adopt a religion then I&#039;m afraid its &#039;moral code&#039; comes as part of the package. What about the &#039;human rights&#039; of murderers and thieves? Shouldn&#039;t they get to be priests too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see the connection between atheism and homosexuality.<br />
As a rationalist I see no evidence of a god so I don&#8217;t believe there is one.<br />
As a rationalist I see evidence that the man species of monkey requires two sexes for reproduction so where does the mono-sexuality of homosexuality come in? Surely &#8216;the bits don&#8217;t fit&#8217;.</p>
<p>If you feel the need to adopt a religion then I&#8217;m afraid its &#8216;moral code&#8217; comes as part of the package. What about the &#8216;human rights&#8217; of murderers and thieves? Shouldn&#8217;t they get to be priests too?</p>
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