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	<title>Comments on: stout</title>
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	<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/</link>
	<description>Two prophets, living together.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:52:27 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: KrateKraig</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-155555</link>
		<dc:creator>KrateKraig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ll bet  Jesus gets excited when Celine leaves His body.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll bet  Jesus gets excited when Celine leaves His body.</p>
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		<title>By: Orlando</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-124747</link>
		<dc:creator>Orlando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-124747</guid>
		<description>Fittingly the phrase &quot;hocus pocus&quot;is often said to be derived from the words from the Latin mass &quot;hoc est corpus meum&quot; (this is my body)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fittingly the phrase &#8220;hocus pocus&#8221;is often said to be derived from the words from the Latin mass &#8220;hoc est corpus meum&#8221; (this is my body)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Orlando</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-124746</link>
		<dc:creator>Orlando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-124746</guid>
		<description>Transubstatiation is certainly a mainly Catholic doctrine. As I understand it most Protestants think the bread and wine are special in some way but without believing they are factually blood and body (not to mention the RCC says Jesus is fully present in the bread and wine, not JUST body and blood but soul and divinity as well - so it probably is not so silly to talk to the wafer):


This site explains catholic orthodoxy on this matter:

http://www.rosary-center.org/ll49n3.htm

Some extracts:

In spite of the fact that there is a complete and total change of substance of the bread and wine at the words of consecration, the appearances or perceptible characteristics, (the accidents) remain the same. What we see and touch and feel, etc., our senses would tell us, is bread and wine. But the reality beneath those appearances, our faith tells us, is the person of Jesus, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. The outward visible characteristics of bread and wine truly continue to exist, so our senses do not deceive us. However, by the power of God those outward characteristics are sustained in existence without the substance in which they formerly existed - to serve as an external sign for the sacrament of the Eucharist. Pope Leo XIII spoke of this in his encyclical &quot;Mirae Caritatis:&quot;

&quot;This miracle is the greatest of its kind . . . for here all the laws of nature are suspended; the whole substance of the bread and wine are changed into the Body and Blood; and the species of bread and wine are sustained by the power of God without the support of any underlying substance.&quot;
St. Thomas Aquinas gives three reasons why it is fitting that God intervenes in this miraculous way (III, 75, 5). 

Because it is not customary but horrible for men to eat human flesh and drink human blood; hence Christâ€™s flesh and blood are given to us under the species of those things more commonly consumed by men. 
Lest this sacrament might be derided by unbelievers, were we to eat the flesh and blood of Jesus under his own proper species. 
That while we receive Our Lordâ€™s Body and Blood invisibly, this may redound to the merit of faith.

We are dealing here with something that cannot be verified or even examined by natural science. The nature of the change brought about in the Eucharist, as taught by the Church, lies beyond what chemistry, physics or biology are able to establish. We have it on the clear words of Our Lord, and we can only assent to it through the supernatural light of faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Transubstatiation is certainly a mainly Catholic doctrine. As I understand it most Protestants think the bread and wine are special in some way but without believing they are factually blood and body (not to mention the RCC says Jesus is fully present in the bread and wine, not JUST body and blood but soul and divinity as well &#8211; so it probably is not so silly to talk to the wafer):</p>
<p>This site explains catholic orthodoxy on this matter:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.rosary-center.org/ll49n3.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.rosary-center.org/ll49n3.htm</a></p>
<p>Some extracts:</p>
<p>In spite of the fact that there is a complete and total change of substance of the bread and wine at the words of consecration, the appearances or perceptible characteristics, (the accidents) remain the same. What we see and touch and feel, etc., our senses would tell us, is bread and wine. But the reality beneath those appearances, our faith tells us, is the person of Jesus, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. The outward visible characteristics of bread and wine truly continue to exist, so our senses do not deceive us. However, by the power of God those outward characteristics are sustained in existence without the substance in which they formerly existed &#8211; to serve as an external sign for the sacrament of the Eucharist. Pope Leo XIII spoke of this in his encyclical &#8220;Mirae Caritatis:&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;This miracle is the greatest of its kind . . . for here all the laws of nature are suspended; the whole substance of the bread and wine are changed into the Body and Blood; and the species of bread and wine are sustained by the power of God without the support of any underlying substance.&#8221;<br />
St. Thomas Aquinas gives three reasons why it is fitting that God intervenes in this miraculous way (III, 75, 5). </p>
<p>Because it is not customary but horrible for men to eat human flesh and drink human blood; hence Christâ€™s flesh and blood are given to us under the species of those things more commonly consumed by men.<br />
Lest this sacrament might be derided by unbelievers, were we to eat the flesh and blood of Jesus under his own proper species.<br />
That while we receive Our Lordâ€™s Body and Blood invisibly, this may redound to the merit of faith.</p>
<p>We are dealing here with something that cannot be verified or even examined by natural science. The nature of the change brought about in the Eucharist, as taught by the Church, lies beyond what chemistry, physics or biology are able to establish. We have it on the clear words of Our Lord, and we can only assent to it through the supernatural light of faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-103258</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-103258</guid>
		<description>Not all Christians believe in transubstantiation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all Christians believe in transubstantiation.</p>
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		<title>By: ticticboom</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96981</link>
		<dc:creator>ticticboom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 02:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96981</guid>
		<description>@Bogusman:

You&#039;re probably right. I paid more attention to the more practical stuff, especially in the OT. There&#039;s actually a lot of practical advice in there, some of it presaging Machiavelli. A nation full of intelligent people, highly educated for their time (Hell, for today, judging by the cretins liberal arts programs churn out) surrounded by enemies who want nothing more than to pillage, rape, and slaughter the lot of them can be highly creative.

That&#039;s a large part of the reason they&#039;re still there. Still stuck in the same situation, but you can&#039;t have everything. The Israelis could learn a lesson from their forebears. The most effective tactic throughout history is reciprocity. It was the basis for the rise of the Roman Republic, although when the Empire forgot that lesson their days were doomed, even if it took centuries of decay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bogusman:</p>
<p>You&#8217;re probably right. I paid more attention to the more practical stuff, especially in the OT. There&#8217;s actually a lot of practical advice in there, some of it presaging Machiavelli. A nation full of intelligent people, highly educated for their time (Hell, for today, judging by the cretins liberal arts programs churn out) surrounded by enemies who want nothing more than to pillage, rape, and slaughter the lot of them can be highly creative.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a large part of the reason they&#8217;re still there. Still stuck in the same situation, but you can&#8217;t have everything. The Israelis could learn a lesson from their forebears. The most effective tactic throughout history is reciprocity. It was the basis for the rise of the Roman Republic, although when the Empire forgot that lesson their days were doomed, even if it took centuries of decay.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hobbes</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96491</link>
		<dc:creator>Hobbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96491</guid>
		<description>Looks like, in the 21st century, they would have all gotten off their knuckles by now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like, in the 21st century, they would have all gotten off their knuckles by now.</p>
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		<title>By: Poor Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96487</link>
		<dc:creator>Poor Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96487</guid>
		<description>Bogusman:  the Church may  not have been so hard, but the early American Puritans were.  The quite mad (schizophrenic, we think) best-selling poet, Michael Wigglesworth, assigned babies, who were innocent of evil deeds but not allowed to bring their stained souls into heaven, to &quot;the easiest room in Hell.&quot;  A deal they can&#039;t refuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bogusman:  the Church may  not have been so hard, but the early American Puritans were.  The quite mad (schizophrenic, we think) best-selling poet, Michael Wigglesworth, assigned babies, who were innocent of evil deeds but not allowed to bring their stained souls into heaven, to &#8220;the easiest room in Hell.&#8221;  A deal they can&#8217;t refuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Bogusman</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96473</link>
		<dc:creator>Bogusman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96473</guid>
		<description>Ticticboom, I think you have your limbos and your purgatories crossed.

Purgatory is where you go if you die in a state of sin but not mortal sin (for them you just go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect Ã‚Â£200). In purgatory you suffer to redeem your venial sins before being allowed into heaven. The period of this suffering could be anything from a few minutes up to thousands of years. 

Limbo on the other hand is where unbaptised babies go. As they still have original sin staining their souls obviously they can&#039;t ever be let into heaven, but even the catholic church wouldn&#039;t be quite so hard as to send babies who have never harmed anyone to hell. Thus limbo. It&#039;s a place without the rapture of the presence of god that distinguishes heaven but also without the hellfire and brimstone of the other place. Dull kind of existence really, especially as these babies are stuck there for the rest of eternity, but what an incentive for good catholic parents to get their offspring baptised. This is also by the way why any catholic (not just priests) can perform a baptism in case of emergency, should a baby be about to suffer neo-natal death. Spring that sprog from limbo and into everlasting paradise just by splashing a bit of water and saying the right magic words. In fact if I remember my RI lessons well enough, you can even skip the water in a dire emergency. 

This is the way it all stood in 1967 when I left my catholic primary school. I believe that limbo has since been abolished but I&#039;m not sure about purgatory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ticticboom, I think you have your limbos and your purgatories crossed.</p>
<p>Purgatory is where you go if you die in a state of sin but not mortal sin (for them you just go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect Ã‚Â£200). In purgatory you suffer to redeem your venial sins before being allowed into heaven. The period of this suffering could be anything from a few minutes up to thousands of years. </p>
<p>Limbo on the other hand is where unbaptised babies go. As they still have original sin staining their souls obviously they can&#8217;t ever be let into heaven, but even the catholic church wouldn&#8217;t be quite so hard as to send babies who have never harmed anyone to hell. Thus limbo. It&#8217;s a place without the rapture of the presence of god that distinguishes heaven but also without the hellfire and brimstone of the other place. Dull kind of existence really, especially as these babies are stuck there for the rest of eternity, but what an incentive for good catholic parents to get their offspring baptised. This is also by the way why any catholic (not just priests) can perform a baptism in case of emergency, should a baby be about to suffer neo-natal death. Spring that sprog from limbo and into everlasting paradise just by splashing a bit of water and saying the right magic words. In fact if I remember my RI lessons well enough, you can even skip the water in a dire emergency. </p>
<p>This is the way it all stood in 1967 when I left my catholic primary school. I believe that limbo has since been abolished but I&#8217;m not sure about purgatory.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hobbes</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96338</link>
		<dc:creator>Hobbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 03:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96338</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, female tigers are beautiful, too.

BTW, there has been another flap over Monty Python&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Life of Brian&lt;/i&gt;. I can&#039;t get much information because I have a weak WIFI signal where I&#039;m located. I&#039;m sure Author must have had Jesus and Mo commenting on this film in the past. If anyone knows the dates, let me know so I can read them. If he hasn&#039;t, it&#039;s another page in the lunacy of belief. If anyone on this blog hasn&#039;t seen the movie, you&#039;re missing some real hoots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, female tigers are beautiful, too.</p>
<p>BTW, there has been another flap over Monty Python&#8217;s <i>Life of Brian</i>. I can&#8217;t get much information because I have a weak WIFI signal where I&#8217;m located. I&#8217;m sure Author must have had Jesus and Mo commenting on this film in the past. If anyone knows the dates, let me know so I can read them. If he hasn&#8217;t, it&#8217;s another page in the lunacy of belief. If anyone on this blog hasn&#8217;t seen the movie, you&#8217;re missing some real hoots.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hobbes</title>
		<link>http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96314</link>
		<dc:creator>Hobbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jesusandmo.net/2008/07/17/stout/#comment-96314</guid>
		<description>Jo Jo, Yes, the statement was ambiguous. To be more clear; five hundred years ago, I thought women were merely equal (almost), but the more beer I drink the more I realize that they are the finest of Nature&#039;s creations, exclusive of Ann Coulter, and all of her ilk, of course.

I think Middle Eastern women are exceptionally beautiful. No wonder the men are so insecure that they keep them hidden even in public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jo Jo, Yes, the statement was ambiguous. To be more clear; five hundred years ago, I thought women were merely equal (almost), but the more beer I drink the more I realize that they are the finest of Nature&#8217;s creations, exclusive of Ann Coulter, and all of her ilk, of course.</p>
<p>I think Middle Eastern women are exceptionally beautiful. No wonder the men are so insecure that they keep them hidden even in public.</p>
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