http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcSXwPsgLhE

and It’s not paranoia, they did blow up the train I get to work just an hour after I used it… it’s way to REAL for comfort.

about the interpretation of the coran? seriously, have you read it? it’s not possible to twist 300 plus passages of “hate against the unbelievers” into love your neighbour and flower power.

If it was possible, then maybe the outlook of Islamic societies today would be a bit broader on their acceptance of freedom of speech, secularity and woman’s rights. It’s not random chance that the Muslim world its backwards economically and socially with near zero scientific innovation and way below average freedoms. Denying it is not racism, or Western sense of superiority… its just looking at the data

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/DEMOCRACY_INDEX_2007_v3.pdf

and seeing what is the reality in the world.

1) even though the Coran is supposedly the perfect word of god, it’s still up to people to interpret it. They don’t call it that, but it’s a given fact, since people(imams) are reading it. Islam has had made faces through history, and it will change again.

2) There have been christian minorities in both Syria, Iran and Iraq, to name a few muslim countries, for centuries. They have not been hunted down and killed, although the muslims there had every oppotunity. It is propably not easy being christian in Gaza, because the hostility towards them has increased in the recent decades, but they have not been extinct.

3) Judging a footballteam on their results make perfect sence, but you have to do so over a period of time. If not you would take a look at the premiership and deduce that Newcastle og Liverpool FC are in their essence “middle-of-the-league”-teams. Both have glorious pasts and no one knows if they will have glorious futures. Actually the football team analogy is a good one, because teams have highs and lows.

I think I’ve made my point, and since this is not a dialog but just two people selfreferencing this will probably be my last post on the matter.
Hope you and people with the same “paranoia” as you get pleasently surprised…

/Jakob

Even IF MAYBE the pollsters what really wanted was a vanilla version of sharia is 100% irrelevant. Once sharia is in place it’s not going to be vanilla, it will be the perfect word of god in law. The point of Islamic law is that it is UNCHANGED. Saying that you want a human rights compliant version of sharia, is like asking that you want a human rights compliant version of nazism.

And all this paragraph above is on the SUPPOSITION that the poll answers where nuanced, witch probably where not, never seen a Muslim recant of any passage of their holy Coran or Sharia as barbaric, not even ACKNOWLEDGE it. Because it would rise many unpleasant questions about the divinity and “all goodness” of the author of said holy book.
Flat out denial of any barbarity in the Coran or Sharia is the best way to stop the conversation going south into uncomfortable territory. And that is what they do every time.
And Muslims are blamed for real things that they are responsible for… done in the name of their religion, folowing the creed of their religion.
Its like saying that you can’t judge a Football team by their results.

Islam commands violence against non-believers, and that leads to episodes like we see on the news. Denying this simple truth is just silly.

You’re right, though, that muslims seem to have a hard time turning a critical view on themselves probably due to a sence of victimization. When you feel that you are constantly being blamed for everything going wrong it is easier to stonewall and point the finger the other way. Not much different from what you’re doing, and interestingly enough where I come from, that constitutes childishness: “I didn’t do it! He started it!!”. – Diplomacy and searching for explanations is the opposite of infantility…

In a BBC poll you can google for easily, 35% of Muslims from the uk, age 16-24 said that they would like to see sharia law implemented in England.

To be honest, 35% its not a fringe minority, and I never seen a protest on the street against terrorism by muslims that has any weight whatsoever.

Islam and Muslims somehow can’t seem to do the self examining and criticism of their own religion thing. They are always right, or there was a good reason to kill the cartoonist, there is always a ‘yes but…’

berlin 39 retoric? well,… I did not invent the natality rates, they do breed X4 quicker than us, and do no seem to be adapting to anything that goes against Islam and sharia, and those who do, do not dare to criticise their brothers and sisters who follow Islam correctly. And by correctly I mean “stone the gays and adulterers and no criticism please” correctly. Sharia law is integral to Islam and denying what it says as LAW does not help anyone. And pretending that even if they grow as majority they will somehow never change the law of the land to become sharia, is just infantile.

There are over a billion muslims in the world and only a tiny percentage of which are zealots, as you discribe. True, those zealots are beyond deliberative reach, but most muslims are pragmatic.

Who have more to fear? Us or them? When was the last time a muslim country invaded another country? Iraq into Quwait in ’91 with a crazy despot leading the country?
The bloodless invasion you talk about, i guess, is the emigration? Most people coming to the west WANT to be part of society! Viewing them as soldiers in a war between cultures will create only that… and btw whats up with the Berlin ’39 retoric?? Do we really need another holocaust?

It is a culture war, because Islam is an all encompassing way of life, based on religion and Sharia law, it is not just a belief for sundays, its a 5 times a day I believe plus the law is also religious and leaving the religion (apostassy) is punished by death.

so, no much room for discussion really. Is them or us, and so far it’s looking bleak, their natality rates are way higher than ours.

It’s a bloodless invasion at the moment, and not far from now, a bloody struggle.

Call me crazy, but I’m not inventing any of this.